First time cider, first time BREWER (on a budget haha)

[Tusch]

Well I am a poor college student and am on a TIGHT budget. But with friends back home that brew their owns meads and ales and my dad did it back in his day, I have always wanted to try this out.

I know I am starting kind of late in the season to make a cider, but this is more of an experiment. I've been reading some of the threads on single gallon batches. I haven't decided what type of "carboy" I will be using, I will be looking around to see if I can find anything that is better than just using the 1 gal. plastic jug that the cider comes in.

I have purchased the yeast (English Cider liquid I believe), an airlock, a rubber stopper proper for fitting to a 1 gal jug if that's how I end up doing it, and a couple of 1/2 gallon bottles for later on.

I am COMPLETELY new to this and have only reading up on recently, any and all suggestions to a newbie are welcome.

Oh and if I decide to try a few different batches at once and only have the one airtight I will be trying out the homemade rig of airtight lid with a tube leading to a bowl of water.

I will also be updating this with my experiences and some pictures as I go.

[Grebnaws Inc.]

You should be alright to use any container for making cider as long as your stopper fits. The "blow off tube" type of air lock you describe works just as well as the bubblers but they're sloppier and less compact.

Single gallon batches are fine but you won't be getting all that you can out of a vial of yeast. If you have the storage or inclination you could save and reculture the yeast for another batch, or, just make 5 separate one gallon batches. It would be a hassle when it comes time to rack your cider off the sediment but it will work.

Ciders rarely have difficulty fermenting to dryness. Your yeast strain should leave some flavor behind but be prepared for a dry, less-than-sweet, result. Many people are expecting apple juice when they are presented with hard cider. Give it a lot of time to age out and bottle to your preference. You could make still or sparkling ciders based upon preference.

[Tusch]

Thanks for the reply.

I did intend on doing several batches, hadn't decided how many. I do expect some pretty dry cider, especially since I have no knowledge on how to control that for the most part haha.

One main constraint on this first attempt is space, so that would limit how many batches I end up doing, and how experimental I feel like being.

Would one of the large jugs, like those that fit in office water coolers, work well? I would be able to do more at once in one container that way and perhaps syphon off to other smaller containers for secondary. I am still trying to get a hold on all the lingo and the whole process. It looks like a lot of people doing the 1 gallon experiences go the simplest route, but I would like to try to do as good as I can given my constraints.

[twoodward15]

where do you live? A lot of brewers on the board would probably give you a bunch of glass gallon jugs and maybe some buckets if you live close to them.

[Tusch]

Well I live in the Cincinnati, Ohio area, but I am in school at Purdue in West Lafayette, Indiana right now. I'd more than welcome some loaners or old cider glass jugs. But if that doesn't happen, I should be fine trying out my first batches in the jugs the cider comes in.

I did see that someone was able to get cider in 1 gallon glass jugs at a trader joe's. We don't have those in this area, but I was wondering if any of the more common stores are known to carry glass jug ciders, like Kroger's, Miejer's, Walmart, Marsh ect.

[Tusch]

New question.

If I let the cider ferment completely, till no activity (essentially) and then try to backsweeten with juice that has sorbates in it. How likely is renewed fermentation. I read that the common levels of sorbates aren't enough to kill an active fermentation, but is enough to prevent a new one (at least if used as original juice) But is it strong enough to prevent renewed fermentation after fermentation has settled in primary?

[wayneb]

Well, that's entirely a function of how heavily sorbated the new mix will turn out to be. You will be diluting the concentration of sorbate in the juice that you use as an addition, so the net concentration of sorbate will be lower -- in a ratio identical to the ratio of new juice to fermented must by volume.

I would add more sorbate, just to be on the safe side. The other thing I'd do is to sulfite the main batch before adding any sorbate. One of the things that can happen to any cider fermentation is a small amount of malolactic fermentation, where a bacteria metabolizes the malic acid in the cider and changes it into lactic acid. This actually helps the cider to mellow out with time, and the rate of malolactic fermentation is usually slower than primary fermentation by the yeast.

However, if those malolactic bacteria are present, and alive, in your cider when you add sorbate to it -- they also can metabolize the sorbate, producing a foul, rotten geranium odor that never goes away. Sulfites will kill any malolactic bacteria that may be present.

[Tusch]

I was considering the sorbated juice backsweetening because, I am at purdue in west lafayette, indiana, am completely new to home brewing, and when I looked online, the nearest brew store was in Indy, 1.5 hour away.

Is it possible to get sorbates and sulfites locally at stores other than LHBS? Are there other stores/kinds of stores I could look into for getting supplies? I bout what I needed so far online and what little I got cost me a crap load for shipping.

[wayneb]

There are no LHBS around Purdue?? What kind of a University is that, anyway!! And they call themselves an engineering campus... for shame!

Seriously, brewing shops are the only places that I know to get these ingredients in reasonable quantities. You can find sorbate in meat packing supply catalogs, but you're usually buying it by the kilo, and spending serious $$ for a lot that you'll never be able to use.

[Tusch]

Well I can't confirm that there are no LHBS around Purdue, but the one resource on the subject I found, some homebrew site, allowed you to select an area and it would list all LHBS in the area. One came up as Ill, one by indy, and one clear up by Gary, Indiana.

So if there is a better way to search? Like the yellow pages? haha

[wayneb]

Well I can't confirm that there are no LHBS around Purdue, but the one resource on the subject I found, some homebrew site, allowed you to select an area and it would list all LHBS in the area. One came up as Ill, one by indy, and one clear up by Gary, Indiana.

So if there is a better way to search? Like the yellow pages? haha

Well, that's how I've found 'em in the past!

[Tusch]

Well update: Still haven't found any supply stores in the area, but trudging along anyways.

Starting with 3 one gallon bottles of pasteurized Mussleman's bran cider, checked, it has ascorbic acid but no sorbates.



3 one gallons, two in a homemade airlock that I am hoping works...
And I used WYEAST Lab's 4766 Cider smack pack yeast for 5 gallon and just split it up, anybody see a problem with adding a bit more yeast than normal? I've seen some of the older and more experienced brewers on here suggesting large amounts in different cases.

Oh the recipe's:
1 (with airlock) is straight cider with yeast
1 is mulled with spices
1 has about a cup or so of brown sugar.

[wayneb]

Nice blow-off tube arrangement that you've got there! I think it will work fine.

Also, there is nothing wrong with using more yeast - it will simply go through fewer reproductive cycles before there are enough cells to sustain anaerobic fermentation -- if anything, that is better than not enough!

[Tusch]

Well I woke up this morning, and checked on them. One with the homemade airlock is bubbling about 1 every 3 seconds, the store bought airlock is once every 30 seconds, and the last one is very close to start bubbling.

[BrewBoyTrev]

Tusch, it's looking good from where I'm sitting. For a first-timer, you're doing great!

Trevor