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Alesmith IPA Clone

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hiddendragonet

Post Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:34 pm

Alesmith IPA Clone

I found a couple of permutations of this recipe on the web. I believe this recipe is from BYO. I've never actually tried an Alesmith IPA before, but it's the highest rated IPA on beeradvocate, not including double IPAs, and I thought it looked tasty so I'm brewing the following this weekend.


Anybody ever make this one?


Alesmith IPA

Batch Size (Gal): 5.50 Wort Size (Gal): 5.50
Total Grain (Lbs): 15.55
Anticipated OG: 1.071 Plato: 17.31
Anticipated SRM: 5.0
Anticipated IBU: 51.7
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Additional Utilization Used For First Wort Hops: -65 %

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
96.3 14.97 lbs. Pale Malt(2-row) America 1.036 2
0.8 0.13 lbs. Cara-Pils Dextrine Malt 1.033 2
0.8 0.13 lbs. Crystal 20L America 1.035 20
0.8 0.13 lbs. Munich Malt(light) America 1.033 10
0.8 0.13 lbs. Wheat Malt America 1.038 2
0.4 0.06 lbs. Honey Malt Canada 1.030 18

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
0.55 oz. Columbus Whole 15.00 11.7 First WH
0.65 oz. Simcoe Whole 13.00 12.0 First WH
0.25 oz. Columbus Whole 15.00 14.0 60 min.
0.19 oz. Amarillo Gold Whole 10.00 3.5 30 min.
0.21 oz. Simcoe Whole 13.00 2.7 15 min.
0.21 oz. Columbus Whole 15.00 2.3 10 min.
0.45 oz. Cascade Whole 5.75 1.6 5 min.
1.12 oz. Cascade Whole 5.75 4.0 1 min.
0.5 oz Columbus dry hop
0.5 oz Amarillo dry hop
0.5 oz Cascade dry hop
0.25 oz Simcoe dry hop
0.25 oz Chinnok dry hop

Yeast
White Labs WLP001 California Ale

Saccharification Rest Temp : 155 Time: 60
Mash-out Rest Temp : 168 Time: 10
Sparge Temp : 172 Time: 10
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jsbeerme

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Post Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:37 pm

I also have never had the actual beer, but hear it's great and I have thought about making it as well. From looking at the malts it seems like it would be somewhat light in color, dry, and pretty darn hoppy. I too would love to know how accurate this recipe is.
Joe
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hiddendragonet

Post Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:14 am

jsbeerme wrote:I also have never had the actual beer, but hear it's great and I have thought about making it as well. From looking at the malts it seems like it would be somewhat light in color, dry, and pretty darn hoppy. I too would love to know how accurate this recipe is.


I was thinking the same thing about the malts, but the 155 mash temp... I dunno, might not be so dry after all. Also with the FWH settings I use in promash (-65%) I don't even think I hit 50 IBUs.

I'm struggling with this recipe a little. My gut tells me ADD SOME CRYSTAL and BUMP THE BITTERING.

I think Alesmith is supposed to be about 70 IBUs. Not sure I'm going to get there with this hop schedule but I think I'm going to try it as written.
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hiddendragonet

Post Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:15 am

jsbeerme wrote:I also have never had the actual beer, but hear it's great and I have thought about making it as well. From looking at the malts it seems like it would be somewhat light in color, dry, and pretty darn hoppy. I too would love to know how accurate this recipe is.
Oh, by the way- speaking of accuracy. Somewhere out there on the web I came across this recipe almost exactly the same, and it had been put together with the help of Pete from Alesmith and gave him credit. If that's true, this should be pretty close.
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jsbeerme

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Post Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:17 pm

hiddendragonet wrote:Oh, by the way- speaking of accuracy. Somewhere out there on the web I came across this recipe almost exactly the same, and it had been put together with the help of Pete from Alesmith and gave him credit. If that's true, this should be pretty close.


That's good to know. I think I will need to actually taste the real thing before I attempt to brew it. I would also have a tough time not adding something more to the recipe, like hops and crystal malts.
Joe
There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness".
Pic's: http://s166.photobucket.com/albums/u87/jsbeerme/
Brewday Slideshow: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7Ytei3LuCQ
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JonesZ

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Post Thu Feb 15, 2007 10:50 pm

I sure would like to try this recipe out, but a 1.070 beer with that IBU level doesn't seem right. I plugged the numbers into Beertools and only got 31 IBU. I tried the seven different hop utilization formulas and got a range from 27 IBU to 56 (Daniels). I also simplified things and rounded up a bit and adjusted for a ten gallon batch. If I change the FWH to a 90 minute boil the IBUs jump way up to 85, so maybe it is correct hop schedule. FWH is a mysterious thing and as such the software probably isnt calculating the IBU contribution correctly.
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hiddendragonet

Post Fri Feb 16, 2007 9:45 am

JonesZ wrote:FWH is a mysterious thing and as such the software probably isnt calculating the IBU contribution correctly.

Yup, it all depends on how you set up your FWH utilization.

Promash ships with it at -10% I think. Personally, I believe it contributes similar bitterness to a 20-30 minute addition, so that's what I try to use in Promash.

I have also seen this recipe stating a 152 mash temp. Maybe that's appropriate since this beer won't really be 70 IBUs.

?
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brewsumore

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Post Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:48 pm

I just plugged the BYO Alesmith recipe into Promash, and if you leave the Promash default FWH utilization at -10, I'm getting 87.4 IBUs (pellet hops) from the recipe at 65% brewhouse efficiency, which matches up with the 65% extract efficiency BYO guages recipes to. If I change the FWH utilization system setting to -65 as hiddendragonet suggests, I get 50.6 IBUs. The BYO recipe lists this clone's bitterness at 93 IBUs. Something's out of whack here, most notably if in Promash you set your FWH utilization to -65.

I did a forum search on "FWH utilization" and saw that Denny also has suggested using the -65 FWH utilization setting in Promash to make your FWH contribution similar to a 20 minute addition, based on a 60-minute boil. Can anybody substantiate this in their experience?

Anyway, at 65% brewhouse efficiency, Promash gives an OG of 1.075 - very close to the recipe's 1.073 OG... The recipe SRM is 9 and in Promash came out at 7.

I've never FWH'd before, so am not sure where to correct - seems like I should just leave the default Promash FWH utilization of -10 and call it close enough and use the hop amounts provided in the recipe - pellets if possible.

Or maybe the recipe's wrong as printed in BYO (which seems less likely).

Alesmith IPA (BYO Clone)

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (Gal): 5.00 Wort Size (Gal): 5.00
Total Grain (Lbs): 16.16
Anticipated OG: 1.075 Plato: 18.16
Anticipated SRM: 7.0
Anticipated IBU: 87.4
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
90.7 14.66 lbs. Pale Malt(2-row) America 1.036 2
0.8 0.13 lbs. Cara-Pils Dextrine Malt 1.033 2
0.4 0.06 lbs. Crystal 10L America 1.035 10
0.4 0.06 lbs. Crystal 20L America 1.035 20
0.8 0.13 lbs. Munich Malt Germany 1.037 8
0.8 0.13 lbs. Wheat Malt America 1.038 2
6.2 1.00 lbs. Honey Malt Canada 1.030 18

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
0.53 oz. Simcoe Pellet 13.00 29.9 First WH
0.50 oz. Columbus Pellet 14.00 30.4 First WH
0.23 oz. Columbus Pellet 14.00 14.1 60 min.
0.17 oz. Amarillo Gold Pellet 8.00 3.0 30 min.
0.17 oz. Simcoe Pellet 13.00 2.6 15 min.
0.19 oz. Columbus Pellet 14.00 2.3 10 min.
0.40 oz. Cascade Pellet 5.00 1.5 5 min.
1.00 oz. Cascade Pellet 5.00 3.7 1 min.
0.50 oz. Columbus Whole 14.00 0.0 Dry Hop
0.50 oz. Amarillo Gold Whole 8.00 0.0 Dry Hop
0.50 oz. Cascade Whole 5.00 0.0 Dry Hop
0.25 oz. Simcoe Whole 13.00 0.0 Dry Hop
0.25 oz. Chinook Whole 13.00 0.0 Dry Hop
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hiddendragonet

Post Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:03 am

Hey man. -65% is what I use for FWH. I don't have Promash in front of me, but you have to go to something like options -> system settings in the menu on top, and then select hop utilizations. There you'll find the setting for mash hopping and FWH.

As of yet, nobody has a concrete answer on the FWH utilization, just a lot of debate. It all boils down to what you perceive. For me, I put it somewhere between a 20 and 30 minute boil, hence the -65% utilization factor.

I don't believe that Promash's default of -10% is correct. I've made all FWH IPAs before that were definitely nowhere near the IBUs that would be calculated if I used -10%. Draw one up that has all FWH at 100 IBUs sometime and see if it really tastes that bitter when you brew it.

I went with the weights you just posted, which is actually a compromise between my instincts and the AAUs posted in the BYO article. My AA % were higher across the board, so if I went by AAUs I would have used less hops than posted above. We'll see!
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hiddendragonet

Post Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:05 am

Hey man. -65% is what I use for FWH. I don't have Promash in front of me, but you have to go to something like options -> system settings in the menu on top, and then select hop utilizations. There you'll find the setting for mash hopping and FWH.

As of yet, nobody has a concrete answer on the FWH utilization, just a lot of debate. It all boils down to what you perceive. For me, I put it somewhere between a 20 and 30 minute boil, hence the -65% utilization factor.

I don't believe that Promash's default of -10% is correct. I've made all FWH IPAs before that were definitely nowhere near the IBUs that would be calculated if I used -10%. Draw one up that has all FWH at 100 IBUs sometime and see if it really tastes that bitter when you brew it.

I went with the weights you just posted, which is actually a compromise between my instincts and the AAUs posted in the BYO article. My AA % were higher across the board, so if I went by AAUs I would have used less hops than posted above. We'll see!
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brewsumore

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Location: Eastern Washington

Post Mon Feb 26, 2007 6:53 pm

Thanks Hiddendragonet. I'm sure you understand that I'm just trying to understand this thing - as I said, I've never FWH'd before so have nothing in my personal experience to base against. As you say - applying logic is often how we brewers come by our conclusions; that's what I'm doing by inputting the recipe in Promash and seeing if the projected IBU's match up with the recipe - but here there's some rub between the apparently logical conclusion that Promash default IBU utilization setting is fairly accurate (at least for this particular recipe) vs. personal experience (at minimum yours and Denny's) that appears to tell a different story. I don't know how to adapt in practice if I decide to FWH, but would REALLY like to try it since I've tasted some Dyno FWH'd beers (pardon the 70's Southern California adjective). Seems like worst case scenario is that if I follow the recipe I get great beer! Sounds pretty lip-smacking to me, as does your version of the beer - wish I could join you for one when it's done! You get it - I'm just pondering. Sounds like there's quite a bit of controversy around using the Promash default of -10. I'll do some more research and make up my own darn mind... and then maybe change it after I've brewed a few FWH'd beers!
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hiddendragonet

Post Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:05 am

I gotcha, man. The only way you'll find out is by trying it!

Yeah, that's where my heartburn about the recipe came from- I figured it would be low on IBUs as written, but I figured the worst that could happen is I have a not-quite-bitter-enough IPA. It's definitely going to have a crapload of hop flavor and aroma so I can live with it!

Racking to secondary and dry hopping tonight. :)
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hiddendragonet

Post Wed Feb 28, 2007 8:46 am

Well, I racked onto the 2 oz. of dry hops last night and took a sample.

The malt profile is nice. My concerns about lack of sweetness are alleviated by the high mash temp. It could use a LOT more bitterness and hop flavor/aroma. I think the 2 oz. of dry hops are going to help a lot with the flavor and aroma.

So the sweetness is fine, but this beer is nowhere near bitter enough. By taste, I'm going with around 50 IBUs. Just a little more bitter than a Pilsner Urquell, and not nearly enough for a nice > 1.070 OG IPA.

I wouldn't hesitate to double the first three hop additions next time.


Any ideas on bumping the IBUs on this beer so late in the game? I was thinking about boiling some hops for an hour in plain water, then reducing it down to a relatively small amount and adding that to the beer. Thoughts?
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brewsumore

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Post Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:59 pm

when I did a search on "hop tea" I saw some warnings against hop tea, but maybe that's different than boiling them for an hour. One person suggested brewing a strong (super hoppy) version of the same beer and blending with the first beer for a good result. I realize that would be time and labor intensive - but I guess you could use extract, water, HOPS...
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Slothrob

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Post Thu Mar 01, 2007 3:37 pm

It looks like this is one of those recipes is going for balance through hop flavor instead of bitterness. FWH'ed and Hopbursted recipes are often NOT improved by throwing in 60' hops to make it "bitter enough".

I don't think it makes any sense to simultaneously think that it's not bitter enough AND that it needs more Crystal Malt. Especially since it's a 1.075 beer. Besides, the flavor of the Crystal Malt will compete with the hop flavor (as well as the sweetness competing with the bitterness) and tend to throw off the balance.

If anything, it seems like the Munich and Wheat are too low to make a difference, but this recipe seems to be essentially a single malt pale ale that is just being very slightly goosed with a little specialty malt to give it some character.

I say, if you like the source beer and trust the recipe source, try this as it stands, THEN tweak it if it's not what you hoped.
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