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Corn Syrup vs. Honey

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onthekeg

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Post Tue May 01, 2007 3:59 pm

Corn Syrup vs. Honey

I have a nearly limitless supply of various dextrose and fructose syrups at my disposal, as well as corn starch.

How would corn syrup vs. honey work in pro mash?
How would corn starch (with a cereal mash) work vs. flaked corn?

Please don't blast me for these adjuncts, as they will work well in some session beers that I would like to try to make. :roll:

Has anyone had experience with this?
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Taylor-MadeAK

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Post Tue May 01, 2007 5:53 pm

onthekeg wrote:How would corn syrup vs. honey work in pro mash?

I'm not really sure that I understand this question. Are you trying to figure out how to calculate a recipe in ProMash with corn syrup as an ingredient? I can see how this would come up, as ProMash doesn't have any information in its database for that ingredient.

If it's a one-time thing, I would just clone the honey ingredient and rename it corn syrup. That should get you pretty darn close. If you want a real extract potential for the ingredient you are using, then measure its pppg (points per pound per gallon) yourself. Just dissolve a pound of corn syrup in a gallon of water and take its specific gravity and enter it into ProMash as its "Gravity Potential as SG pppg." Make sure you flag it as a sugar, and set its %Yield at 99% (I assume that corn syrup, like corn sugar, is 99% fermentable).

I've never used corn starch or flaked maize in a mash, but I can tell you that the difference is that a flaked adjunct has already been gelatinized. If you want to use corn starch, then you're going to have to cook it and add add the goo to your mash. As others have pointed out in other threads, at that point you might as well just add corn syrup to your kettle instead.

Why would we flame you for using adjuncts? It's your beer!
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onthekeg

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Post Wed May 02, 2007 7:45 am

Thanks for the insight Taylor-made.
I figured that I would do just that, but wasn't sure if it was exactly a 1:1 ratio with honey. I can get about 8 different syrups that all have different fermentability so I will mainly use the ones with lower oligosaccharides since that will minimize the unfermentables unless needing additional mouthfeel.

I don't exactly know what manner to use corn starch other than to do a cereal mash with it, but then how do you keep from making gravy? I may just decide to skip the corn starch angle.
"The dog is an outside dog. You want an inside dog, you go get your own inside."

I hate the Packers so much, I wouldn't cheer for them if they were playing al Qaeda.
A fine beer may be judged with only one sip, but it's better to be sure.
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TG

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Post Wed May 02, 2007 11:29 am

I believe some of the corn syrups have other ingredients in them like vanilla flavoring and preservatives. Just check the labels.
Brew on, Tom
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Taylor-MadeAK

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Post Wed May 02, 2007 1:55 pm

onthekeg wrote:I don't exactly know what manner to use corn starch other than to do a cereal mash with it, but then how do you keep from making gravy?

You don't. That's what corn starch does when it gelatinizes, and you have to gelatinize it in order to mash it.

onthekeg wrote: I may just decide to skip the corn starch angle.

Good idea, in my humble opinion.
Primary: Nothing. Gainfully employed now, but still broke.
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Bottled: Saké 2010
Make some sake.
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onthekeg

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Post Wed May 02, 2007 3:56 pm

TG wrote:I believe some of the corn syrups have other ingredients in them like vanilla flavoring and preservatives. Just check the labels.
Brew on, Tom


The corn syrup that I get is straight from the evaporator at the plant. No additions other than h202 or soda ash for pH adjustment when going to loadout.
Thanks for the heads up on the store brand stuff though TG! :D
"The dog is an outside dog. You want an inside dog, you go get your own inside."

I hate the Packers so much, I wouldn't cheer for them if they were playing al Qaeda.
A fine beer may be judged with only one sip, but it's better to be sure.
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onthekeg

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Post Wed May 02, 2007 3:59 pm

Taylor-MadeAK wrote:
onthekeg wrote:I don't exactly know what manner to use corn starch other than to do a cereal mash with it, but then how do you keep from making gravy?

You don't. That's what corn starch does when it gelatinizes, and you have to gelatinize it in order to mash it.

onthekeg wrote: I may just decide to skip the corn starch angle.

Good idea, in my humble opinion.


The interesting thing with the corn starch is that a large brewer would purchase 8-10 railcars a week for their Light beer. They must have a way to make it work! Other breweries would purchase the corn syrups for their production. Different breweries were using different types as well.
"The dog is an outside dog. You want an inside dog, you go get your own inside."

I hate the Packers so much, I wouldn't cheer for them if they were playing al Qaeda.
A fine beer may be judged with only one sip, but it's better to be sure.
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Taylor-MadeAK

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Post Wed May 02, 2007 6:02 pm

Generally some malted barley ends up in the cereal cooker along with the adjuncts. If you're using corn starch, then having the malt in there would probably make it easier to mix into the main mash after it thickens up.
Primary: Nothing. Gainfully employed now, but still broke.
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Bottled: Saké 2010
Make some sake.
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Geronimo

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Post Thu May 03, 2007 3:05 pm

I think for the homebrewer, corn sugar makes the most sense.
-- Jim
home brewing in Minnesota

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