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Farmhouse Saison Recipe

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Pawtucket Patriot

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Post Thu Jun 07, 2007 2:04 pm

Farmhouse Saison Recipe

I'm getting ready to brew my first Saison in a few weeks and have put together a recipe based on a commercial example I found in the book Farmhouse Ales. I'm shooting for something a bit drier than what the style guidelines suggest (which, according to Farmhouse Ales, is actually more true to style anyway).

Any comments/suggestions?

Summer Saison
16-C Saison

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Size: 5.32 gal
Efficiency: 75%
Attenuation: 90.0%
Calories: 192.98 per 12.0 fl oz

Original Gravity: 1.059 (1.048 - 1.080)
|=============#==================|
Terminal Gravity: 1.006 (1.010 - 1.016)
|================================|
Color: 5.8 (5.0 - 12.0)
|=========#======================|
Alcohol: 7.0% (5.0% - 8.5%)
|=================#==============|
Bitterness: 30.34 (25.0 - 45.0)
|============#===================|

Ingredients:
8.5 lbs Pilsner Malt
2 lbs Turbo Munich
.50 lbs Wheat Malt Pale (Organic)
.50 lbs Cane Sugar
1.25 oz East Kent Goldings (5.0%) - added during boil, boiled 60 min
.50 oz East Kent Goldings (5.0%) - added during boil, boiled 20 min
.50 oz Styrian Goldings (6.0%) - added during boil, boiled 1 min
.50 oz Saaz (5.0%) - added during boil, boiled 1 min
1.0 ea Whirlfloc Tablets (Irish moss) - added first wort, boiled 5 min
300 mL WYeast 3724 Belgian Saison Yeast

Notes:
-Single infusion batch sparge
-Saccharification @ 145*F [60 min]
-Mashout @ 167*F [10 min]
-Sparge @ 172*F [10 min]

-Add sugar with 15 minutes remaining in boil
-Start fermentation at around 65 and ramp up to high 80s
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majorvices

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Post Thu Jun 07, 2007 2:28 pm

Everything looks good to me. The one thing I have been doing differently is step mashing and ramping through all the rests (with long rests at 144 and 148) to really insure maximum fermentibility.
- Keith Y.
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Pawtucket Patriot

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Post Thu Jun 07, 2007 2:35 pm

I was considering a step mash, but I've never done one before. I mash in a cooler which makes step mashes a bit more difficult, but not impossible, from what I understand.

What rests would you recommend, out of curiosity (besides the two saccharification rests you mentioned)?
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majorvices

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Post Thu Jun 07, 2007 5:01 pm

I doughed in at 99 or so and ramped up to 122 and rested for 10-15 minutes then ramped up 144 and rested for about 60 minutes and then ramped up to 148 for an aditional 30 minutes. I batch sparged so didn't mash out.

I have gotten great attenuation with a single infusion on my saisons in the past, so you might just stick with that for your first one. But I am looking for that magical 90+% attenuation that FHA speaks of without using a lot of sugar.
- Keith Y.
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Denny

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Post Thu Jun 07, 2007 5:46 pm

Keith, do you really think you're getting different results using both 144 and 148 than you would if you combined the times for a single rest at maybe 145?
Life begins at 60....1.060, that is.

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Intrinsic

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Post Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:14 pm

Your recipe looks good but I didn't see any spices like bitter orange, coriander, grains of paradise, etc.
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majorvices

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Post Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:04 pm

Denny wrote:Keith, do you really think you're getting different results using both 144 and 148 than you would if you combined the times for a single rest at maybe 145?


Denny - no, it's not the rests that I am as concerned with as the "ramping" through the rest froma low dough-in temp. The 144 nd 148 rests are just traditional rests and that's what I decided to try. I have only tried this on two batches and the one did get a little dryer. I am trying it again right now on a traditional saison (now fermenting). I am intrigued by the saison brewers achieving 90+% plus attenuation using nothing but malt and no sugar.... :?: I'd like to know how they do that.

I got the idea from a discussion on the BabbleBelt Board and they made some good points about the body(and thinness) of belgians and saisons and the possible correlation of the step mash. A lot of the guys over there swear step mashing and "ramping" makes a difference - and they know their belgians.

As always, I'd be interested to know your opinion.
- Keith Y.
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Ein Prosit, der gemutlichkeit!
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AnthonyB

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Post Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:37 pm

I'd dump the Turbo and substantially up the sugar to around 2-2.5lbs, otherwise you're never going to get it to dry out to where a Saison should be.

Recently, the Brewing Network had Randy Thiel (of Ommegang Fame) on for an interview, and in the interview he gave a Saison recipe. You can find it here: http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/phpBB2 ... php?t=5298

I'm not a huge fan of spices in beers, especially in Belgian beers where the yeast is usually providing plenty of interesting spice.

In the BN interview, Randy also said that in their mash process they ramp up with a few rests, but of course, he also alluded to the fact that they do use a substantial amount of sugar (dextrose) in their beers.
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majorvices

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Post Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:23 am

AnthonyB wrote:I'd dump the Turbo and substantially up the sugar to around 2-2.5lbs, otherwise you're never going to get it to dry out to where a Saison should be....


FWIW, I think he's going by the guidelines set forth in FHA where it is suggested to use up to 5% sugar for dryness. According to the book, the saison brewers don't use a lot of sugar but still get awsome attenuation. (some use none- for instance: Dupont's Saison Vielle Provision, 100% pils malt, 93%AA!!).

I occasionally use spices but agree that the yeast is spicey enough and any spices that are used should only be used to accentuate the spiceness from the yeast.
- Keith Y.
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Pawtucket Patriot

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Post Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:29 am

majorvices wrote:I occasionally use spices but agree that the yeast is spicey enough and any spices that are used should only be used to accentuate the spiceness from the yeast.


I agree. Saison Dupont has no spices in it, yet it has a very spicy character.
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gabbagabbahey

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Post Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:22 am

I think the key to getting those really high attenuation levels is to ferment as hot as you can 90+ :shock:
...of course I'm not an expert,
I'm just a guy that brews a lot.
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majorvices

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Post Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:30 am

gabbagabbahey wrote:I think the key to getting those really high attenuation levels is to ferment as hot as you can 90+ :shock:


I've had the same attenuation at 90-98 as I have had at 78. What I think the high temps does is speed up the fermentation.
- Keith Y.
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HomeBrew

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Post Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:53 am

The recipe looks good to me. The yeast will lend a lot spice by itself, but I usually add a bit of GoP to accentuate. I also like bitter orange peel, but it all depends upon personal taste. Sugar-wise, I prefer to add turbinado (or equivalent) vs. plain sugar...I think that it lends a bit more character. You may want to consider upping your flavor hops if you aren't adding spices. Again, this is dependant upon personal taste but the hop flavor plays off the yeast pretty well.

A few more comments based my own experience...

Water - Note that the regional water is pretty high in sulfates. Depending upon your profile, you may want to adjust. I have done batches with and without adjustment and the higher level seems to add a bit of pop to the hops and it accentuates the dryness. I also adjust pH with lactic acid.

Mash - I have mashed with and without stepping and have not detected any difference. I now do just a single rest at 143F for 90 minutes. My FG is always <1.008.

Yeast - FWIW, I have had much better luck with WL565 vs. WY3724. My only "stuck" fermentation was with WY3724, but it could have been a bad pack. Either way, I strongly suggest adding nutrients and DAP up front...The yeast seem to dig it. Temperature-wise, I pitch at 75F and ramp it up to 90F during primary. After 3 weeks, I transfer and drop slowly to 85F. Bottle conditioning starts at 85F but is dropped slowly to 75F. Fresh yeast at bottling is highly recommended...The yeast are usually pretty pooped after fermentation.

Ageing - Saisons taste the best past 6 months, imo. Not that they aren't tasty right away, but they do continue to improve. Also, try a bottle or two at stout serving temps...Very different flavor profile.

Good luck, you will not be disappointed with this style!
Fermentation microbiologist by trade, homebrewer by choice.
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AnthonyB

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Post Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:17 am

majorvices wrote:
AnthonyB wrote:I'd dump the Turbo and substantially up the sugar to around 2-2.5lbs, otherwise you're never going to get it to dry out to where a Saison should be....


FWIW, I think he's going by the guidelines set forth in FHA where it is suggested to use up to 5% sugar for dryness. According to the book, the saison brewers don't use a lot of sugar but still get awsome attenuation. (some use none- for instance: Dupont's Saison Vielle Provision, 100% pils malt, 93%AA!!).

I occasionally use spices but agree that the yeast is spicey enough and any spices that are used should only be used to accentuate the spiceness from the yeast.


Right, but on a first generation pitch of the Dupont strain that we have available through Wyeast or WhiteLabs, you aren't going to get 93%AA and the only way to get a high amount of attenuation is to add more simple sugar.

And I agree about the attenuation with regards to fermentation temperature. Raising the temperature only speeds up the fermentation, doesn't change the attenuation in my experience (in FHA, the author even says that the only reason Dupont ferments so high is because they need the fermentation to go fast because of lack of space)
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mashweasel

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Post Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:13 am

For comparison, here is my Saison recipe. Ive found that if you dont ferment hot then you wont get a really complex peppery character. The spices I chose accentuate this but dont add a lot of 'heavy' aromas/flavors. This Needs lots of healthy yeast. I step up a starter and thats plenty. Needs tons of carbonation also. 180g is about 4.5vol. The mash I use is directly what Ommegang uses.

Enjoy.

16C - Saison - #1

A ProMash Recipe Report

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
-------------------------------

16-C Belgian & French Ale, Saison

Min OG: 1.048 Max OG: 1.080
Min IBU: 25 Max IBU: 45
Min Clr: 5 Max Clr: 12 Color in SRM, Lovibond

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (Gal): 5.00 Wort Size (Gal): 5.00
Total Grain (Lbs): 11.00
Anticipated OG: 1.070 Plato: 17.00
Anticipated SRM: 3.1
Anticipated IBU: 41.4
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate: 15.00 Percent Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 5.88 Gal
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.059 SG 14.58 Plato

Formulas Used
-------------

Brewhouse Efficiency and Predicted Gravity based on Method #1, Potential Used.
Final Gravity Calculation Based on Points.
Hard Value of Sucrose applied. Value for recipe: 46.2100 ppppg
% Yield Type used in Gravity Prediction: Fine Grind Dry Basis.

Color Formula Used: Morey
Hop IBU Formula Used: Rager

Additional Utilization Used For First Wort Hops: -10 %


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
72.7 8.00 lbs. Pilsener Germany 1.038 2
18.2 2.00 lbs. Cane Sugar Generic 1.046 0
9.1 1.00 lbs. Wheat Malt America 1.038 2

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
0.75 oz. Magnum Whole 14.00 38.5 First WH
0.50 oz. Styrian Goldings Whole 5.25 2.9 15 min.
0.50 oz. Styrian Goldings Whole 5.25 0.0 0 min.
0.50 oz. Saazer Whole 4.30 0.0 0 min.


Extras

Amount Name Type Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
0.20 Oz Grains of Paradise Spice 5 Days(boil)
0.40 Oz Ginger Root Spice 5 Min.(boil)


Yeast
-----

White Labs WLP565 Belgian Saison I


Water Profile
-------------

Profile:
Profile known for:

Calcium(Ca): 0.0 ppm
Magnesium(Mg): 0.0 ppm
Sodium(Na): 0.0 ppm
Sulfate(SO4): 0.0 ppm
Chloride(Cl): 0.0 ppm
biCarbonate(HCO3): 0.0 ppm

pH: 0.00


Mash Schedule
-------------

Mash Name: Ommegang

Total Grain Lbs: 9.00
Total Water Qts: 12.00 - Before Additional Infusions
Total Water Gal: 3.00 - Before Additional Infusions

Tun Thermal Mass: 0.00
Grain Temp: 65.00 F


Step Rest Start Stop Heat Infuse Infuse Infuse
Step Name Time Time Temp Temp Type Temp Amount Ratio
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doughin 1 15 113 113 Infuse 120 12.00 1.33
Beta 2 35 143 143 Infuse 210 6.18 2.02
Alpha 2 25 158 158 Infuse 210 5.76 2.66
Mashout 2 5 172 172 Infuse 210 9.48 3.71


Total Water Qts: 33.43 - After Additional Infusions
Total Water Gal: 8.36 - After Additional Infusions
Total Mash Volume Gal: 9.08 - After Additional Infusions

All temperature measurements are degrees Fahrenheit.
All infusion amounts are in Quarts.
All infusion ratios are Quarts/Lbs.


Notes
-----

Spices:

GOP - crappy LHBS brand

Ginger - crystalizes Australian ginger (p
enzeys)



Primary

-pitch at 62F let ramp to ~85F



2nd

- 1 week at ~62F




Bottle condition ~4.5vol

-1 vial Saison yeast

- 180g corn sugar
Egészségedre,

Kristen England, Ph.D.
BJCP Continuing Education Director
Grand Master Judge
http://www.bjcp.org
http://www.bjcp.org/cep


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