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Delirium Tremens clone

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bacillus

Posts: 1

Joined: Tue May 29, 2007 8:47 am

Post Tue May 29, 2007 8:54 am

Delirium Tremens clone

I have read with great intrest the 20 pages of posts regarding the design of a DT clone. From what I gathered in the posts I plan to use this recipe this weekend:

85% pils
15% sugar

12g corriander
4g ginger
4g GOP
(all added at 10 minutes remaining in boil)

Styrian Goldings
Saaz

Yeast cultured from a bottle of DT

I plan to do a single decoction (unfortunately) mash at 145-150 for 90 minutes and sparge at 172 for 30-35 minutes.

My questions:

What is the total grain bill for a 6 gallon batch? 10 lbs, 12 lbs?
How much of each hop and what times?
Does this recipe seem resonable?

Thanks much!

Bob
In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, and in water there is bacteria
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TimO

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Location: Fenton, Michigan

Post Wed May 30, 2007 12:11 pm

This is Joe Fleischman's recipe


@6gal - 12.0lb Pilsener @10gal - 20lb
@6gal - 2.0lb cane sugar @10gal - 3.33lb

@6gal - 1.5 oz Styrian Goldings 60 min @10gal - 2.50oz
@6gal - 0.5oz Czech Saaz 5min @10gal - 0.83oz

@6gal - 0.19oz fresh ginger root...not dried 10min @10gal - 0.31oz
@6gal - 0.44oz corriander seed 10min @10gal - 0.73oz
@6gal - 0.14oz GOP 10min @10gal - 0.25oz

WLP530 or Wy3787 with monster starter is a much better bet than culture(IMHO)
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Denny

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Post Wed May 30, 2007 12:14 pm

TimO wrote:WLP530 or Wy3787 with monster starter is a much better bet than culture(IMHO)


TRAVESTY!!!! :wink: FWIW, I find that culturing gets me closer.....YMMV.
Life begins at 60....1.060, that is.

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TimO

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Post Wed May 30, 2007 12:28 pm

YMMV.......zactly!!!!
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DrunkenGamblur

Post Wed May 30, 2007 5:50 pm

I split a 10 gallon batch. Half got the culture and half got a 550/570 blend. Both are good, but the culture wins.
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Soren

Post Fri Jun 01, 2007 6:53 pm

This sounds great. One question: is the cane sugar refering to belgium candi sugar, and, if so, what color would you use on this recipe (clear, amber?).
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Halowords

Post Fri Jun 01, 2007 7:45 pm

Soren wrote:This sounds great. One question: is the cane sugar refering to belgium candi sugar


NO! Just the cheap table sugar. The "Belgian candi sugar" is pretty much nothing more than a waste of money that the Belgians use because it is cheap and readily available; they apparently laugh when they hear how much we pay for glorified rock candi. If they lived over here they would use table sugar.

As an aside, there ARE people who claim they can taste a difference. They can chime in. Personally, I cannot tell a difference between the rocks and table sugar in the beer. If I was going to use something OTHER than table sugar for a Tripel type of beer, I would use some ethnic sugar that gave a noticable contribution; in my opinion the candi sugar is a waste of money and adds NOTHING that store-bought table sugar cannot do for cheaper.

-Cheers
Last edited by Halowords on Tue Jun 05, 2007 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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NUbrew

Post Sat Jun 02, 2007 5:26 am

Halowords wrote:
Soren wrote:This sounds great. One question: is the cane sugar refering to belgium candi sugar


[size=24][NO!/size] Just the cheap table sugar. The "Belgian candi sugar" is pretty much nothing more than a waste of money that the Belgians use because it is cheap and readily available; they apparently laugh when they hear how much we pay for glorified rock candi. If they lived over here they would use table sugar.

As an aside, there ARE people who claim they can taste a difference. They can chime in. Personally, I cannot tell a difference between the rocks and table sugar in the beer. If I was going to use something OTHER than table sugar for a Tripel type of beer, I would use some ethnic sugar that gave a noticable contribution; in my opinion the candi sugar is a waste of money and adds NOTHING that store-bought table sugar cannot do for cheaper.

-Cheers



i use the candi sugar quite often. pretty much everyone on here agrees with your statement here, but i just use it because i trust it and i am willing to pay the price. i am scared to use table sugar because i am worried that the beer will not taste the same. :?

on the other hand, i have not used the soft candi sugar that northern brewer now stocks. how does that compare to the rock sugar?
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Halowords

Post Sat Jun 02, 2007 10:57 am

NUbrew wrote:i use the candi sugar quite often. pretty much everyone on here agrees with your statement here, but i just use it because i trust it and i am willing to pay the price. i am scared to use table sugar because i am worried that the beer will not taste the same. :?


You should really try it yourself. If you can talk Joe Fleischman out of a bottle of his Westmalle Tripel clone, I believe he uses sugar and his beer was outstanding. A personal plug for Joe (great guy to talk to and makes a great beer), and for using table sugar. But you will never know for sure unless you try it yourself.

on the other hand, i have not used the soft candi sugar that northern brewer now stocks. how does that compare to the rock sugar?


Some people love it, some people do not notice a difference between the blonde soft candi sugar and table sugar. My guess, from listening to and reading from other brewers, is the blond soft sugar can add some subtle flavors that some do not really notice, the soft Belgian brown sugar has a subtler effect than the dark candi syrup that I believe somebody (I believe it was N8, but do not quote me on that) said he did not really notice much of a contribution. I have tasted a homebrewed beer that had some of the blond soft sugar AND some dark candi syrup that was excellent, but that could have been because it was just a sensationally brewed beer.

What my research has kind of lead me to conclude is:

1) If I want a Tripel, I will use Pilsner Malt and table sugar. It tastes great to me that way as long as I don't screw anything else up along the way.

2) If I want a Dubbel or Quad, I will use one or two bottles of Belgian Dark Candi Syrup. It seems to make a more noticeable contribution, taste amazing, and can be used by itself or with Special B to make a great authentic-tasting Belgian Dubbel/Quad/Belgian Dark Strong Ale/whatever-you-call-it.

3) If I were using anything else, I would use some of the many ethnic sugars out there. They cost less, seem to have more of an impact, and are more tried-and-proven than the rock sugar from almost all accounts.

Taste is subjective, and I am not REALLY a Master Brewer, but I have had personal success, and tasted others make amazing beer, using table sugar and the Dark Candi Syrup. Those have been successful in really nailing the flavor(s) I was looking for and love, so I feel no need to look anywhere else, although personal experimentation is always worthwhile so try everything.

-Cheers
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arnilong

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Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 10:26 am

Location: Iceland

Post Tue Jun 05, 2007 3:56 pm

TimO wrote:This is Joe Fleischman's recipe


@6gal - 12.0lb Pilsener @10gal - 20lb
@6gal - 2.0lb cane sugar @10gal - 3.33lb

@6gal - 1.5 oz Styrian Goldings 60 min @10gal - 2.50oz
@6gal - 0.5oz Czech Saaz 5min @10gal - 0.83oz

@6gal - 0.19oz fresh ginger root...not dried 10min @10gal - 0.31oz
@6gal - 0.44oz corriander seed 10min @10gal - 0.73oz
@6gal - 0.14oz GOP 10min @10gal - 0.25oz

WLP530 or Wy3787 with monster starter is a much better bet than culture(IMHO)


I am planning on brewing this when I have time. What should my OG be if I had the right efficiency? What's the efficiency I am trying to reach?
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JoeF

Post Tue Jun 05, 2007 5:47 pm

Take it for what you will, this was from the second time I brewed a DT clone attempt, which turned out better than the first. The beer is still light in color, there's something else in there - thinking about doing a third attempt in a couple weeks, maybe a month...

Delirium Tremens reclone

A ProMash Recipe Report

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
-------------------------------

18-C Strong Belgian Ale, Belgian Strong Golden Ale

Min OG: 1.065 Max OG: 1.080
Min IBU: 25 Max IBU: 35
Min Clr: 4 Max Clr: 6 Color in SRM, Lovibond

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (Gal): 5.50 Wort Size (Gal): 5.50
Total Grain (Lbs): 13.50
Anticipated OG: 1.075 Plato: 18.13
Anticipated SRM: 3.5
Anticipated IBU: 26.3
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate: 15.00 Percent Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 6.47 Gal
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.064 SG 15.56 Plato

Formulas Used
-------------

Brewhouse Efficiency and Predicted Gravity based on Method #1, Potential Used.
Final Gravity Calculation Based on Points.
Hard Value of Sucrose applied. Value for recipe: 46.2100 ppppg
% Yield Type used in Gravity Prediction: Fine Grind Dry Basis.

Color Formula Used: Morey
Hop IBU Formula Used: Rager

Additional Utilization Used For Plug Hops: 2 %
Additional Utilization Used For Pellet Hops: 10 %


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
88.9 12.00 lbs. Pilsener Germany 1.038 2
11.1 1.50 lbs. Cane Sugar Generic 1.046 0

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.50 oz. Czech Saaz Pellet 3.50 20.9 60 min.
0.50 oz. Styrian Goldings Pellet 5.25 5.3 30 min.


Extras

Amount Name Type Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
0.40 Oz Corriander Seed Spice 10 Min.(boil)
0.17 Oz Ginger Root Spice 10 Min.(boil)
0.13 Oz Grains of Paradise Spice 0 Days(boil)


Mash Schedule
-------------

Mash Name: DT Mash Sched

Total Grain Lbs: 12.00
Total Water Qts: 10.08 - Before Additional Infusions
Total Water Gal: 2.52 - Before Additional Infusions

Tun Thermal Mass: 0.00
Grain Temp: 75.00 F


Step Rest Start Stop Heat Infuse Infuse Infuse
Step Name Time Time Temp Temp Type Temp Amount Ratio
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Protein Rest 5 15 131 130 Infuse 144 10.08 0.84
Beta Rest 5 30 144 142 Infuse 210 2.65 1.06
Alpha rest 5 30 158 156 Infuse 210 4.65 1.45


Total Water Qts: 17.38 - After Additional Infusions
Total Water Gal: 4.35 - After Additional Infusions
Total Mash Volume Gal: 5.31 - After Additional Infusions

All temperature measurements are degrees Fahrenheit.
All infusion amounts are in Quarts.
All infusion ratios are Quarts/Lbs.


Notes
-----

Yeast: Recultured from a bottle of Delirium Tremens.

GOP 10 min.
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TimO

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Location: Fenton, Michigan

Post Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:35 am

You changing stuff up on me Joe? :wink:

Arnilong....since this is so expensive in Iceland, I would definitely suggest making one for yourself. Spend the $9 for a bottle but first to try it and then a second time to compare the brew to what you have made.

I have 5gal of this (Joe's Recipe) still in my lager fridge waiting to be kegged and it was brewed in March. A second batch made off of the yeast cake was done with the same identical recipe but without the spices and it also is sitting in the fridge.

MMmmmmm.....
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arnilong

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Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 10:26 am

Location: Iceland

Post Wed Jun 06, 2007 12:43 pm

TimO wrote:You changing stuff up on me Joe? :wink:

Arnilong....since this is so expensive in Iceland, I would definitely suggest making one for yourself. Spend the $9 for a bottle but first to try it and then a second time to compare the brew to what you have made.


Sure, I'm planning to brew it soon. I have other brews waiting now. But I love the original DT, I buy it all of the time along with Duvel.

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