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Need help with Ithaca Beer Clones - CascaZilla/Flower Power

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mahoni

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Post Wed Mar 23, 2011 5:44 pm

Need help with Ithaca Beer Clones - CascaZilla/Flower Power

After reading the article in Zymurgy about reducing gluten in beers I am going to try and clone one of these beers for a friend that is gluten intollerent. I would like some feedback on these recipes. I used the Ithaca Beer website as a reference and an online calculator to hit the IBUs. This is my first time using a calculator to form a recipe so any and all feedback is welcome.

Both are based on 2.5 gallon boil and the AA units for the hops are the middle of the range from NB catalog.

Flower Power
6 lbs Gold LME
1 lb Gold DME
1 lb Gambinus Honey Malt (for steeping)
1 oz Cascade (5.5 AA)- 60 min
1 oz Ahtanum (8.0 AA)- 60 min
2 oz Columbus (11.0 AA) - 60 min
1 oz Simcoe - dry hop
1 oz Centennial - dry hop
1 oz Amarillo - dry hop
_________________________________________

CascaZilla
6 lbs Gold LME
1 lb Gold DME
1.5 lbs Crystal Malt - 60L (for steeping)
.5 lbs Black Malt (for steeping)
4 oz Cascade (5.5 AA) - 60 min
1 oz Crystal (3.5 AA) - 15 min
1 oz Chinook (12 AA) - 0 min
1 oz Cascade - dry hop
1 oz Amarillo - dry hop

Thanks for the help!
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Wahoo

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Post Wed Mar 23, 2011 6:31 pm

Re: Need help with Ithaca Beer Clones - CascaZilla/Flower Power

Too much honey malt in the flower power. It is more like 4-6oz.
Too much black malt in the Cascazilla. It is just for color. 1oz?
You will have a hard time making lovely hoppy beers like ithaca with a 2.5 gallon boil... boil that sucker as big as you can.
"Lagers? You'll put your eye out. Stick To Ales"
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mahoni

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Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:53 pm

Location: Nebraska

Post Wed Mar 23, 2011 6:40 pm

Re: Need help with Ithaca Beer Clones - CascaZilla/Flower Power

The biggest boil I have done to date is 3 gallons. The is on the largest burner I have and there is big difference in the time it takes to reach a boil from 2.5 to 3 gallons. But If it is for the betterment of my beer will do.
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zwiller

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Post Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:06 pm

Re: Need help with Ithaca Beer Clones - CascaZilla/Flower Power

Wahoo wrote:You will have a hard time making lovely hoppy beers like ithaca with a 2.5 gallon boil... boil that sucker as big as you can.


+1

Full wort boils are one of the best improvements one can make. Can't find Ithaca beers in my area but the hop schedule for Flower Power is a tad askew to me. Itahca's hop schedule likely has more additions than just boil and dry hop. Probably has additions somewhere at 20, 15, 10, 5, and KO. You'll need more hops to keep the same IBU...
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mahoni

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Location: Nebraska

Post Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:22 pm

Re: Need help with Ithaca Beer Clones - CascaZilla/Flower Power

Any suggestions on how would adjust my hop schedule? may be the following would be better...

Cascazilla - use more Chinook for the 60 minutes say 2 oz and add .5 oz of Cascade/Crystal at 45/30/15/KO??

Flower Power - 2 oz Columbus and .5 oz Ahtanum .5 Cascade for 60 minutes .5 oz or .25 oz Ahtanum at 45/30/15/KO??
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JLap

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Post Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:24 pm

Re: Need help with Ithaca Beer Clones - CascaZilla/Flower Power

What's the connection between these beers and gluten?

I actually live in Ithaca and talk with the brewer once in a while. I made a Zilla clone for a homebrew club "clone" meeting a year or two ago with information he gave me. Here is the recipe I used that time, 12gal:

19.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 75.25 %
4.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US - Rahr (2.0 SRM) Grain 15.84 %
2.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 7.92 %
0.25 lb Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 0.99 %
2.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops -
2.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops -
1.50 oz Chinook [13.00 %] (60 min) Hops 25.0 IBU
0.50 oz Magnum [14.00 %] (60 min) Hops 9.0 IBU
2.00 oz Cascade [6.00 %] (15 min) Hops 8.5 IBU
2.00 oz Centennial [9.00 %] (15 min) Hops 11.4 IBU
4.00 oz Crystal [4.50 %] (0 min) Hops -
2.00 gm Chalk (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
10.00 gm Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Boil 60.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs California Ale (White Labs #WLP001) [Starter 2000 ml] Yeast-Ale
1 Pkgs Whitbread Ale (Wyeast Labs #1099) [Starter 2000 ml] Yeast-Ale

That information came pretty much directly from him. The hops are the same except for the Magnum which I added to cut the Chinook character a bit. You could also go all cascade at 15. Their yeast is proprietary and he recommended Wyeast 1099 as a sub. Their beers do have an English yeast enhanced malt character. The OG should be 1.060, FG 1.014-6. The recipe numbers above use Tinseth for the IBU. I think one important point is that they use Fawcett medium crystal so you definitely want to go with an English crystal malt in the 60L range. Mash low with that yeast.

We tasted the beers side by side at the brewery and they were pretty close. Mine had more fresh hop character and their's more malt aroma. Both were good.
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mahoni

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Location: Nebraska

Post Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:53 pm

Re: Need help with Ithaca Beer Clones - CascaZilla/Flower Power

The connection to gluten is that my friend is gluten intollerant and Flower Power and Cascazilla are her favorite beers.

There was a Zymurgy article about reducing gluten with Clarity Ferm and I thought I would give it a try with with Flower Power or Cascazilla clones.
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Wahoo

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Post Thu Mar 24, 2011 7:14 am

Re: Need help with Ithaca Beer Clones - CascaZilla/Flower Power

I would not use 1099 in an Ithaca type beer... tastes more like 1098 ("Whitbred Dry") to me....
"Lagers? You'll put your eye out. Stick To Ales"
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JLap

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Post Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:50 pm

Re: Need help with Ithaca Beer Clones - CascaZilla/Flower Power

Except that they don't get the attenuation of that yeast. I think they mash this beer at 148-9, which with 1098/007 would make for a super attenuated beer. I can only say that it's what the brewer recommended and it worked well in the clone - not exact though. He told me their yeast has been used since the start of the business and it started as a strain that isn't available through the current yeast suppliers. It was maintained in a lab up at Cornell for a long time. I think the main thing is to pick and english yeast and ferment low to get a restrained english malt/yeast character.

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