Of course not unless you want to but their barrels would be different than yours so I would think the flavors would be different. Not that that’s a bad thing. I like surprises and don’t try to clone beers anyway. Disclaimer , I havnt barrel aged so I’m just guessing or would it be gassing?
I’m just messin’ with you! And the barrels that breweries buy are available for purchase to the homebrew market too. It’s a bit of a feat to fill a 55-gallon whiskey barrel, but very achievable, especially for a club. 10 to 15 gallon spirit barrels are a good size for homebrewing, and with a little attention to minimizing oxygen ingress are just as viable as full size barrels.
With the recent explosion of breweries wanting to jump into the barrel-aged beer market and the high margins associated with these beers, I’d say a skilled homebrewer can produce barrel aged beer as good or better than 75% (maybe more?) of the BA beers on the market. Mostly because a lot of them aren’t doing it very well, though.
Should just let it go as it’s devolving into a semantic argument at this point, but here’s one more post (sorry).
While working towards an exact clone has never been my goal, if it was there’s probably a bit more than the wonderful ambiance that I’d be unable to replicate. I don’t have access to their water or their exact yeast or malt. Sure, I can treat my water to try and match theirs and 1762 is probably a pretty close facsimile for their yeast, but will they be exactly the same, i doubt it.
Wouldn’t the same have to hold true for your beers? Clearly, you’ve high expectations for your beer. That bias is bound to show up (and realizing you have bias does nothing to mitigate it). That was pretty much the whole original point I was trying to make.
This is where words start getting parsed. I’ve no problem with a subjective statement like this. You can say you like you’re beer better than Heady, etc, and since you can dial into your own taste preferences, you probably can. That’s different to me than saying ‘I make beer just as good as Heady’, which comes across as an objective statement putting you as a brewer at the same level as the best in the world…that’s a bold statement and one I’d be hesitant to accept at face value- from anyone. Apologize if that comes across as petty semantics, but it creates a hugely different interpretation of what you’re trying to say. You make a good point about differentiating between replicating another brewer’s product and being able to create it out of whole cloth in the first place.
I think this is probably the #1 reason for bad commercial beer. Opened up a Hog Heaven from Avery a while back and it was disgusting. Stale and oxidized. If that was the first time having it, I’d think Avery sucked. In reality, it’s a great beer and it’s Binnys or the distribution channel that put it there that sucks.
I’ve also been pleasantly surprised how well sours turn out, even just straight unblended ones sometimes. Commercial ones are always hit and miss if you start straying from the classics. With such high variability, some probably just don’t turn out well, but they may have to just bottle and sell them anyway for business reasons. I don’t buy the $20+ ones anymore.
I’d love to try one (and I say that out of genuine interest and curiosity, not to be an @sshole.) I’d pay for shipping if you’re willing to go through the effort of sending a couple.
So in conclusion, my point is…I’m not even sure anymore, but I did waste a lot of work time, and for that I’m grateful.
And that’s it in a nutshell , a professional Brewer is one who gets paid to waste time.
So, let’s name some of these commercial breweries that your beer is better than. That way we have a yardstick for comparison.
Budweiser, Miller, Coors to name a few. I will give them a nod to consistency though
That’s a very low bar. I was wondering if those were the kind of beers that people were comparing to. I wasn’t, which is why I think I had a different take on things.
Indeed… that changes things. I’m specifically referring to “craft(y)” beer when I compare to commercial beer. So my eventual “attainable” goal of a decent, midrange APA is something like Dale’s Pale, or Sierra Nevada Pale. That probably took me a year and quite a few batches. I would need to be much better than I am now to make something like a Pseudo Sue.
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You said better than. I feel I make an American lager that can match Sam for instance. My pale has been compared to Bass. I feel my IPA can go head to head with lauganitas. Of course that’s my opinion and that of my friends. That’s who I really have to please.
Of course it is, and that’s important. But at least for me, I need to be more objective than “my friends like it” when I compare my beers to commercial.
Your right it is important. Went through 4 kegs at my octoberfest party while commercial offerings went untouched and have been tapped to brew for our Super Bowl party. Personally that’s enough for me. But I agree some guys make better beer.
This is true in many places. Over here in Finland, if you call yourself a “pro” brewer and try to raise money to start a brewery, investors won’t pony up unless you can prove you are qualified to open a brewery. That doesn’t mean you know how to brew good beer, it means you have a certification from a academic program saying you’ve graduated and are now are entitled to call yourself a “pro”.
Sort of like what you need to call yourself a “doctor” in the US, but taken to extremes. You can’t get a job here as a cashier if you don’t have a certificate saying you are qualified to operate a cash register.
Magic Hat. Shipyard. Dogfish Head. Blue Point. Sixpoint.
Well hang on a bit though: I never said I was a better brewer than Kimmich or Shaun Hill. You made that postulate from my statement, which absolutely was one of opinion (my own)! I started this by stating that our beers compare to ‘road trip’ beers (the Pepsi challenge reference). I didn’t say ‘consistently exceed’ or ‘out-innovate’.
That being said, I don’t think you are mincing words: but what you miss is this was always a statement of opinion, as is any statement made as to the quality of something (especially beer). People buzzing around Untappd, FB and internet forums about Treehouse and the like are not making (and shouldn’t be expected to make) OBJECTIVE statements. They are ones of opinion, partially arrived at based on Teletubby-like fervor that isn’t necessarily judging on quality, just scarcity. I also appreciate that when someone thinks their ____ is excellent, there are lots of people (including me) that look upon that statement with scrutiny and skepticism. So I understand where you are coming from, reading this statement made by some jamoke on a web forum.
If you spend time honing your process and recipes however, my original point was that you can likely achieve the reaction of “I didn’t know you can make beer like this at home” from drinkers (including yourself).
Our beers have scored really well in comps, so that to me at least partially validates that we are being critical of our beers and searching for flaws/ways to improve them. Is a bias still there? Sure. But understand that we are both highly critical of our beer, probably to a fault.
I would love to just do a friendly beer trade, I will just drink your beer (unless you want feedback), but to your point going the other way, you will likely have a huge confirmation bias against mine just from this conversation! Our next IIPA should be kegged and ready in about 3 weeks, and I have a doppelbock I can throw in.
Totally agreed on this point as well, though I would attribute this advantage more specifically to oxidation/staling. This is much easier to avoid when kegging IME.
But I can get plenty of great quality, fresh beer form the plethora of local breweries here. Freshness may come into play of you compare to something like Sam Adams, but there are a lot of other beers to compare to, also.
Wow this thread is getting deep. I have never seen so many long posts back to back to back. As far as the original question, I have made beer that I though was as good or better then some good craft beer. I have also made a few beers that I dumped down the drain because there was no way I was drinking 5 gal of that. At first that really bummed me out, but then I realize I’m still learning and still improving. With 3 1/2 years brewing 10-15 times a year, that’s not many brews under my belt. I feel I’m am very critical of my beer and I’m always looking for something wrong, combine that with a string of bad beer I was almost ready to call it quits. But I kept at it and made some beers that I though we solid. I sent them out to comps to get feedback and was quite surprised to place with both beers. The fact of the matter is pro or homebrewer we all make mistakes and we all dump beer (some more then others and some should do it more)
It seems as though the vast majority of new breweries opening up are “homebrewers gone pro”.
It’s an appealing thought, but the fact of the matter is that a large percentage of them simply aren’t making very good product. A lot of it in fact tastes like rookie beginner homebrew.
It is absolutely possible for a homebrewer to make beer/ale that is every bit as good as some of the best beers in the world. The real challenge is managing to do it with consistency and repeatability.
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As usual, you’ve nailed it! It seems to be a combo of g=things…1.) while it may be possible to homebrew beer as good as some commercial beer, achieving that consistently is a problem for homebrewers 2.) as more new breweries open, the law of averages says that there will be more mediocre to poor ones. That lowers the bar for homebrewers to say their beer is as good as commercial. 3.) low bar? let’s just leave all the NAIL brewers out of this
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Sure, sounds good. Little low on fresh beer, Super Bowl party killed 3 of my 4 taps, but I can send the one that’s left and throw in a sour or something if you’re into that kind of thing. Always appreciate feedback. Hit me up when you’re ready and we’ll work out logistics.
