Thicker Mash for bigger grain bill?

This is a fairly simple question that hopefully someone can help me out with getting it through my thick skull. :lol: I am going to be brewing the Megalodon Imperial Red Ale this afternoon. I batch sparge using Denny’s method. I have been mashing from 1.5 qt/gal to 1.6 qt/gal. I have my grain absorption figured out for my system at .12 gals/lb, and my MT dead space is .25 gal. This is a 16.5 lb grain bill which is bigger than anything I’ve done so far. If I leave my calculator at 1.5 gal with all the rest of the settings the same, it gives me 24.75 qts for initial infusion and has me sparging with 10.05 qts. This would net me roughly 2.5 gallons from the batch sparge and 4 gallons from the first runoff. My question is should I reduce my ratio with this bigger grain bill to 1.4 to get closer to 1/2 of my preboil target of 6.5 gallons from the batch sparge or should I just run with what I normally do?

:cheers:
Rad

[quote=“Radagast”]This is a fairly simple question that hopefully someone can help me out with getting it through my thick skull. :lol: I am going to be brewing the Megalodon Imperial Red Ale this afternoon. I batch sparge using Denny’s method. I have been mashing from 1.5 qt/gal to 1.6 qt/gal. I have my grain absorption figured out for my system at .12 gals/lb, and my MT dead space is .25 gal. This is a 16.5 lb grain bill which is bigger than anything I’ve done so far. If I leave my calculator at 1.5 gal with all the rest of the settings the same, it gives me 24.75 qts for initial infusion and has me sparging with 10.05 qts. This would net me roughly 2.5 gallons from the batch sparge and 4 gallons from the first runoff. My question is should I reduce my ratio with this bigger grain bill to 1.4 to get closer to 1/2 of my preboil target of 6.5 gallons from the batch sparge or should I just run with what I normally do?

:cheers:
Rad[/quote]

I don’t think it’s gonna make a whole lot of difference either way, so do what’s easier for you.

I think your efficiency will suffer if you use a small batch sparge like that.

If it were me, I would probably go down to something like 1.2 qt/lb. And I would also increase my total runoff volume by at least a half gallon to give even more sparge volume (just have to boil longer).

The other thing I do with heavier beers is split the batch sparge up into 2 additional sparges instead of just one. That way you get a dilutional effect twice instead of just once. I don’t have any hard data to support this, but it makes sense to me that this would help efficiency, and I have been able to keep up above 80% even with my heavier beers (although I don’t typically go over 1.070)

Mash with about 0.9 qt/lb and do a double sparge with 1/3 your boil volume per runoff. This will maximize efficiency and ensure it all fits in your mash vessel without any problems and no drawbacks.

:cheers:

I use a 70 qt cooler so space is not an issue. I just mashed in at 1.4 qt/gal at 154, figure I’ll oversparge by 1/4 to 1/2 gal and plan to boil for 90 mins. Will see how she rides. I’ll try to remember to try a 3 runnings batch on my next bigger beer and see how that turns out.

:cheers:
Rad

The triple sparge will increase your efficiency, but not by much. I’ve been tracking my efficiency numbers for several years now, and with a standard double batch sparge I average 77%. With a triple batch sparge, that goes up to 81%. But that is probably overstating the real benefit, as most of the triple sparges I did were with lower gravity beers where I was trying to keep the mash from getting too thin and keep roughly equal sparge volumes. I’ve since concluded that neither of those concerns make a significant difference, so it’s been a while since I did a triple sparge.

I also do three runnings and mash at 1/1 on big grain bills often. It doesn’t effect my efficiency much if at all. I don’t worry about three equal runnings either, I’ve done it but never noticed a difference. My third sparge is basically whatever I need to reach my volume.

For a 1.085 beer, my average efficiency if I just do one sparge is 58%. It’s really hard to get decent efficiency with just one sparge with the big beers. But with double batch sparge, this increases to about 70% average. That is significant. Can’t do any better than that unless I was to sparge again and do an insanely long boil of like 3 hours or something.

Wow, you’re kidding! I’m in the upper 70s-low 80s on a 1.085 beer with a single sparge addition. You might want to look for the source of your problem.

I don’t have a problem. My efficiency is perfectly predictable and I can nail the OG every time within a few points. I can’t help it if the grains won’t give up 0.12 gal/lb. Anyway, I always double sparge such a beer so I don’t just accept that 58% is the way to go. Been years since I got that. It’s possible/probable that these days it would be even higher. That was a long time ago. So, actually, maybe the effect really isn’t that significant after all. More experiments would be necessary. But I don’t really care to explore this one very much.

Problem was the wrong word…sorry about that. But the point remains…it’s entirely possible to get better efficiency on that kind of OG. whether or not you care to go the the lengths it might take to increase it is totally up to you. It’s homebrewing, we all get to do it the way we want to!

My preboil efficiency came out at 73% which I was quite happy with. I hit 1.090 OG on the nose and it’s merrily bubbling away in the basement. Thanks for all the tips!

:cheers:
Rad

I’ll have to try to double sparge because I have been having the same issues with efficiency since I increased from 5g batches to 10g and 15g batches. For beers 1.050 and under, I am usually at about 70% efficiency for a 10 gallon batches. For 1.060 beers I’m at about 60% and for 1.070+ I’m at about 50%. My PH is always inline as well and a recirculate my sparge for about 15 minutes.

I just brewed a 15g batch of Denny’s BVIP last weekend and planned it for 50% efficiency given the gravity and history of low efficiency with 2-row/crystal vs pilsner. I was dead on with a 1.086 gravity. I’m not sure where my problem lays, my water is spot on, PH is always 5.3, temps are hit and volume is correct. I just spend more in grain now but it is driving me nuts.

[quote=“hoppyguy”]I’ll have to try to double sparge because I have been having the same issues with efficiency since I increased from 5g batches to 10g and 15g batches. For beers 1.050 and under, I am usually at about 70% efficiency for a 10 gallon batches. For 1.060 beers I’m at about 60% and for 1.070+ I’m at about 50%. My PH is always inline as well and a recirculate my sparge for about 15 minutes.

I just brewed a 15g batch of Denny’s BVIP last weekend and planned it for 50% efficiency given the gravity and history of low efficiency with 2-row/crystal vs pilsner. I was dead on with a 1.086 gravity. I’m not sure where my problem lays, my water is spot on, PH is always 5.3, temps are hit and volume is correct. I just spend more in grain now but it is driving me nuts.[/quote]

Maybe crush finer…

I’ve adjusted my mill gap to go finer and finer and the efficiency has been consistent. I’ve even built a new mash tun and was still in the same range.

Just double sparge and you’ll be fine. It’s not a whole lot of extra work. You want to try to get 1/3 of your runnings from each of the 3 runnings – first runnings, sparge, second sparge. Efficiency will bounce up by 10-15% overnight. We’d say you shouldn’t have to, but… if nothing else works, why not?!

Just double sparge and you’ll be fine. It’s not a whole lot of extra work. You want to try to get 1/3 of your runnings from each of the 3 runnings – first runnings, sparge, second sparge. Efficiency will bounce up by 10-15% overnight. We’d say you shouldn’t have to, but… if nothing else works, why not?![/quote]

This is the kind of thing that mystifies me. I’ve found little value in equal runnings. I brewed yesterday. The OG was 1.056 and I got 86% brewhouse efficiency with a single batch sparge. If I can do it, why can’t other people? This kind of stuff drives me crazy…

If only we could look over everyone’s shoulders and point out efficiency losses.

If I didn’t get consistently lousy efficiency, I’d love to have someone stand over my shoulder. But I have my 63% dialed in and just use more malt.

Just double sparge and you’ll be fine. It’s not a whole lot of extra work. You want to try to get 1/3 of your runnings from each of the 3 runnings – first runnings, sparge, second sparge. Efficiency will bounce up by 10-15% overnight. We’d say you shouldn’t have to, but… if nothing else works, why not?![/quote]

This is the kind of thing that mystifies me. I’ve found little value in equal runnings. I brewed yesterday. The OG was 1.056 and I got 86% brewhouse efficiency with a single batch sparge. If I can do it, why can’t other people? This kind of stuff drives me crazy…[/quote]
The efficiency gain from using equal runnings is small, but definitely there. You can calculate it pretty well by using pretty simple equations that take into account sugar concentrations and dilutions. When I looked at this some years ago, my results matched my calculations very well. That said, the effect is fairly small even with big differences in volumes, and if I was looking to improve efficiency I’d focus on other things.

But focusing on consistency in mash efficiency is far more important, and for that anything you can keep consistent in the process helps. So I do make an effort to try and get equal runnings from the two sparges in order to reduce the chances of variability in efficiency.