Question about bicarbonate and alkalinity

Is bicarbonate/alkalinity needed in water? i am brewing a pale ale today and using brun water to help…I am using distilled water and i have put in all my mineral additions to reach the water profile target and target ph of 5.3…but my bicarbonate and alkalinity is at zero and my RA is at -86…do i need to raise the bicarbonate and alkalinity or am i good to go?I…I am really trying to understand water for brewing so if you can help shed some light that would be awesome

I’ve only been using that spreadsheet for 1 year, so I’m not the expert on this. My understanding is that bicarbonate is only needed to hit your target mash pH. In a pale ale, you don’t have roasted malts that add acidity to your mash like a stout would. Without bicarbonate, a stout mash pH would be too low. If you’re hitting 5.3, you’re right on the money. The spreadsheet instructions state that the optimum range is 5.3 to 5.5. I am using that spreadsheet right now to get ready to brew one of NB’s IPA recipes, and I am getting 5.4 using my own tap water which has 112 for bicarbonate. So unless someone else with far more experience than me chimes in to correct me, I think you’re going to be fine.

Only add bicarbonate to black beers. Otherwise, never.

Um, wrong. Add bicarbonate only to produce an acceptable mash and wort pH.

While a pale ale grist with low alkalinity water (such as RO) would not need any alkalinity, if you add a bunch of calcium and magnesium in an effort to add sulfate and chloride, then you could need to add alkalinity too. The addition of those calcium and magnesium salts depress the mash’s residual alkalinity and that requires the addition of alkalinity to keep the mash pH from dropping too low. For hoppy beers, keeping the mash and wort pH up around 5.4 does improve the production and perception of bitterness.

Learn something new everyday. So, is Burton water a case where you need all different kinds of salt additions in there including bicarbonate to avoid too low a pH? Assume starting from distilled.

Ever wonder why NB doesn’t have water profiles listed with their AG kits? Is it assumed that we all know what profiles go best with these kits? If they’ve spent all this time designing these kits, they must know what water profile went best with them, correct?

Probably because 1) you can make pretty decent beer with NB kits with almost any water most of the time, and 2) if NB supplied water profiles, guess who would get the blame if someone’s brew went sideways because of a presumed water profile issue?

Probably because 1) you can make pretty decent beer with NB kits with almost any water most of the time, and 2) if NB supplied water profiles, guess who would get the blame if someone’s brew went sideways because of a presumed water profile issue?[/quote]
I would say that it is more so to keep things simple. Look at extract instructions. It’s the easiest to make beer. Same thing here. If I was looking to go AG and the first thing I had to come across is to make sure my water contained 65 ppm calcium, 10 ppm magnesium, 5 ppm ka etc, I would be persuaded to just stay where I’m at.

Probably because 1) you can make pretty decent beer with NB kits with almost any water most of the time, and 2) if NB supplied water profiles, guess who would get the blame if someone’s brew went sideways because of a presumed water profile issue?[/quote]
I would say that it is more so to keep things simple. Look at extract instructions. It’s the easiest to make beer. Same thing here. If I was looking to go AG and the first thing I had to come across is to make sure my water contained 65 ppm calcium, 10 ppm magnesium, 5 ppm ka etc, I would be persuaded to just stay where I’m at.[/quote]

Thanks for the responses. Points well made. The first time I bought and brewed an AG kit, it was the Smashing Pumpkin, and I got horrible efficiency from the mash even with a lot of canned pumpkin added. Obviously, I didn’t start with the simplest kit, but I could just as well have given up on the whole AG thing because of that one bad experience. NB simply stated I needed to acidify my sparge water. It wasn’t a sparge issue; it was a mash issue which is what I learned when I studied water. I pursued and did much better on my second attempt and other attempts after that. I’m just saying some beginning brewers might have better first experiences if they had at least broad ranges of acceptable values given to them and some basic information on water before attempting AG.

Maybe it would be an opportunity for them to sell more product if they made up brewing salt packages that go along with the kits with the instruction to add the contents of the salt package to distilled water before mashing. This would be an optional thing of course like how you can choose to buy their suggested yeast or not. How easy would that be for beginning AG brewers? Go to local grocery store, pick up whatever gallons of distilled water at $1.00 a gallon, measure out mash water, add contents of salt package, add heat and begin mashing. Most likely have a much better first experience with much better tasting beer? It might even interest some of us non-beginners. Depending on the beer, I spend at least 30 to 45 minutes measuring out brewing salts on a gram scale for both my mash and sparge waters. Maybe this would be a convenience option?

Or maybe just state that although their kits work OK with most types of water, here’s what they think would be the best profile for those of us geeks who want to attempt to improve efficiency, taste or both. For example, I have to add lots of sulfate to my water for an IPA. What would that kit taste like if I didn’t? Might still be good, but I’m sure the hop bitterness would be blunted.

All I’m saying is that based on my experiences anyway, this is a vital part of AG brewing that shouldn’t be ignored.

Brew I agree. Water shouldn’t be ignored, IMHO. Of course some have the outlook that they want to keep it a simple hobby so they don’t care as long as the beer is “good.”

You have some good ideas. Perhaps you have a business venture on hand with those ideas? :wink: