Quest for the perfect IPA (PH)

Plan to keg an IPA this weekend. No dry hop, just 8oz at 15m and a 8oz hopstand. Smells great![/quote]

what size batch? That’s a lot of hops!

5G batch but brewed 6G. I scaled up from the typical 5.5G for hop losses.

How does it taste? Hoppy I would imagine :slight_smile:

Will advise. Kinda excited about this one. First beer with a stir plated starter. Normally, I would just pitch harvested yeast.

I have taken Martin’s advice and started to pay more attention to my boil pH. Don’t get me wrong I still would like my finish beer pH at 4.5-4.6. I think later in the fall when I have more time I will do 4 one gallon batches with slightly different boil pH, and do some blind tastings. I’ll also record pH readings from mash to finish beer pH. Keep the information coming I think we are on the right track. :cheers:

^ :roll:

Tapped the IPA and it is remarkably different that previous iterations. At this time it is very grassy and much different than typical. I have been making this beer every other month with minor revisions for like 10 years but never with a starter. I have been really happy with my non starter IPAs but was fighting a slightly boozy aroma that I was hoping to reduce with the starter after hearing all the rage about 'em. Gonna give this some additional time and see what happens…

Some weird trivial things I noticed. Normally (non starter) during the ferment is rather violent and will lift all the trub from the bottom of the carboy and swirl it around. The starter brew was much more relaxed leaving most of the trub alone. Also, typically when I dump the junk after kegging the aroma is insanely hoppy smelling. This time, it was kinda non-descript. Time will tell I guess.

Not sure if this is off-topic for this excellent thread, but when you say “non-starter IPA”, do these IPA’s still have adequate amounts of yeast pitched, or is this just one vial in 5 gallons? I may have missed this from earlier in the thread.

Slightly more if not completely off-topic, I am finding that the IPA’s I love the most are the ones that have the perfect amount of (and perfect type of) esters that marry with and enhance the hop flavor/aroma.

Has pH’s effects on yeast growth/ester production been discussed in this thread?

Non-starter=just one vial for 5.5G. I am with you on the esters and have made the move from chico to WLP007. I don’t think pH and esters/yeast was really discussed.

Update: grassiness is definitely fading and hop flavor is becoming more pronounced so there is hope.
This is kinda bizarre, as I was expecting faster maturation from the starter. Another thing I notice: All my beers have pretty good heads, but the head on this is outstanding.

That would explain the fusel alcohol you were smelling/tasting! One vial is meant for 5 gallons of 1.040 beer. If your house beer/IPA is in the typical OG range for an IPA I would guess on those you were underpitching by at least half. Do you use a yeast calculator such as yeastcalc or mrmalty?

I think getting an adequate amount of yeast in there will improve the beer far more than dialing in a mash or kettle pH.

I am the opposite, I don’t think a starter is gonna improve or even fix a beer brewed outside of it’s proper pH range. I think we could agree it’s the sum of all parts though… I will admit the last time I was doing starters was before the stir plate and yeast calculator rage. Which is why I am giving it a shot now. We’ll see… Did this one by the numbers.

Zwiller, any pH readings on this IPA? Mash, Sparge, Pre and Post boil, finished beer pH.

Between meters at the moment. I have pH dialed in pretty good. Putting off the purchase of my 4th as long as I can… Spending my geek out money on other hobbies. :smiley: That said, current MO for my IPA via BNW is mash pH 5.4 and acidify sparge to same, so preboil is 5.4, from experience with my previous meters and notes I get a .2 drop from the boil, so 5.2 into the fermenter. Unsure what WLP007 is doing or whether the starter is making a larger impact on final pH but I am inclined to think from our data that english strains produce more acid than domestic.

Brewed an IPA recently with WLP007.
Pre-boil pH: 5.42
Post-boil: 5.21
Finished beer: 4.73
This is the first beer I’ve made (since I began using starters) that ended with such poor attenuation relative to what I expected (AE 71.4%). OG 1062. FG 1017. Not happy with the results at all.

The vial was nearly 4 months old, but I made an appropriate starter and fermented per my usual SOP.

I’ll be taking final measurements on another one (OG 1067) tomorrow if all goes according to plan.

I wish I could say that I was dialed in. The hardest part for me has been consistently using the same malts. We used to have a hook up with a local maltster, and lost that connection. I have moved to Great Western 2-row and my pH has dropped significantly. KC thanks for the readings, I would have expected your finish beer pH to be lower with those Pre and Post boil readings. I have a Heady clone fermenting at the moment and will post all of my readings for it in a couple of weeks. :cheers:

KC, is that one too sweet/thick? Personally, 1.017 is OK for me but I am at 1.072 > 1.018 (75%) with last IPA. I think WLP007 is a bit thicker than Chico but not sweet. Chico is a hungry dude. I think WLP007 might be more selective. Had one finish at 1.020 that I am sure Chico would have lowered. (was testing a 30m mash) Wasn’t sweet or thick, just hazy.

For my taste it’s too sweet, but to be fair the sample was at room temp and I used 8% crystal which is also a deviation from my SOP. I almost never exceed 3-4% crystal in an APA or IPA.

It’s not just the sweetness, though. The hop flavor is muddled and boring, which is consistent with prior experience when pH finishes too high. Funny thing is that I tasted it before testing pH and right away my suspicions were raised regarding pH.

It’s dry hopping now. I sure hope I kicked up some yeast during racking and that it will drop the beer a couple points in the keg (and give me free carbonation–albeit over-carbonation). The beer was crystal clear, though, coming out of the fermenter.

Just took a sample of my second IPA fermented with WLP007. Here are the specs:
mash pH: 5.21
pre-boil pH: 5.3
post-boil pH: 5.29
final pH: 4.61
Sometimes I get almost no pH drop at all from the boil. Very strange. Anyway, AE on this one was slightly higher (73.4%). Took 1.067 down to 1.017. Strange that it stopped at the same place.

This one is better than the one mentioned above. It’s more bitter and I used ~20% rye in the grist, which provides more balance.

Will have to wait and see how these turn out carbonated and cold before I decide to use this strain again in an IPA.

I’ve been staying with wy1272 on all my IPAs. It knocks them down to 1.010-1.012 every time and consistently knocks 9 points off the pH. I’m enjoying the last few batches that came in at 4.6 degassed prior to kegging. I’ve been playing with the grain bill more to get the body and malt presence I want and I think I’m getting what I want from the yeast.

I’m considering dialing back the sulfates because I think there’s a lingering drying affect in the back of the throat as someone mentioned above, that might be attributed to the sulfates. I’ve been using the same pale ale profile as Matt which targets sulfates at 300. I do believe it highlights the bitterness but I think it could be drying and I’m wondering if it limits the flavor and aroma from the late and DH hops.

This is the one I’m drinking now:

BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: American IPA 2
Brewer: Danny Clarke
Asst Brewer:
Style: American IPA
TYPE: All Grain

Amt Name Type # %/IBU
9 lbs Briess 2 Row (1.8 SRM) Grain 1 81.8 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Munich 10L (Briess) (10.0 SRM) Grain 2 13.6 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 3 4.5 %
0.75 oz Centennial [9.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 4 25.4 IBUs
1.00 oz Centennial [9.50 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 5 20.5 IBUs
1.00 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining 6 -
2.00 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 7 14.2 IBUs
1.0 pkg American Ale II (Wyeast Labs #1272) [124 Yeast 8 -
1.62 oz Centennial [9.50 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 9 0.0 IBUs
1.50 oz Centennial [8.20 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Days Hop 10 0.0 IBUs

Mash Schedule: BIAB - Danny’s
Total Grain Weight: 11 lbs

Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash in Kettle Add 17.90 qt of water at 160.8 F 151.0 F 60 min
Sparge Add 12.00 qt of water at 196.6 F 168.0 F 10 min

Sparge: If steeping, remove grains, and prepare to boil wort
Notes:

Water Profile: Ca114, Mg 9, Na 10, Su 198, Cl 98
mash pH 5.6 151-52 at12 mins , sparge water 5.8, 1st runnings 5.6,
Preboil Kettle pH - 5.6, Post boil- 5.5
pitched 700ml 1272 from 7/2/14 dropped carboy temp to 61
8/12 - 1.5 DH no bag in primary
8/15 keg available so kegged with 1.62oz DH in bag, 4.6pH, 1.011

Created with BeerSmith 2 - http://www.beersmith.com

As a side note I think based on some info in the Hops book you may want to consider dropping/racking off of your yeast before dry hopping.

On that same point, does anyone have any info on beer/mash pH’s effects on dry hopping? I found this paper, which strangely does not address this point at all.

http://ir.library.oregonstate.edu/xmlui ... thesis.pdf

Great thread!

I hope a few of you try and scale back on the sulfate and confirm that is a step backwards. At least that’s what I think.

Thanks for posting the thesis. Very interesting. Just scanned it but what caught my eye was the sensory evaluation values: stirred were all nearly double of the passive…

Also, have not racked before dry hopping in sometime but a few recipes in Steele’s IPA call for this. I do tend to think there is something going on with the yeast… At least when I keg and dump the carboy it smells incredible and wish it stayed in the beer!

Any you hops heads think some hop character can survive the boil for more than 30m? I have not tried that some time as I have been loading up on the late additions.