Pilsner Urquell

That looks good to me! However, I am curious about trying the melanoidin malt that was mentioned in this thread and in the Helles thread. I think I’ll try some of that in my next pale lager.

I’d be tempted to try all distilled. Martin Brungard debunked the 50ppm Ca thing.

Also agree with pk as it will be hard to achieve the color and complexity of PU without boiling the mash and beer for hours on end.

Went to the PU site and it was interesting that the video which details how they brew spoke very much about how their brewing process changes based on raw materials. Maybe they no longer honor the old techniques? Only a few breweries in Germany decoct…

Those hops czech? AA seems awfully high. I would not substitute domestic.

[quote=“zwiller”]I’d be tempted to try all distilled. Martin Brungard debunked the 50ppm Ca thing.

Also agree with pk as it will be hard to achieve the color and complexity of PU without boiling the mash and beer for hours on end.

Went to the PU site and it was interesting that the video which details how they brew spoke very much about how their brewing process changes based on raw materials. Maybe they no longer honor the old techniques? Only a few breweries in Germany decoct…

Those hops czech? AA seems awfully high. I would not substitute domestic.[/quote]

Good point about the color. I do not intend to decoct. Not sure where the AA came from in BS2. I don’t have the hops yet. Will use Czech Saaz and adjust amount for IBU target of about 42.

I’m probably a couple months from trying this so I’ll likely adjust things prior to brew day.

I have a schwarzbier fermenting right now and am having a bit of trouble keeping the temp dialed in exactly where I want it with the swamp cooler. I may hold off on any more lagers until I can get another freezer to ferment/lager in.

Brewing this on Saturday. Considering the melanoidin. I think I have half pound or so on hand.

I would use it. Should deepen the color a bit and be more authentic than using carapils assuming you are not decocting. Half a pound might be just about right, but play around with your software for color to be sure. I would be aiming 5%.

I’m not planning on decocting. I don’t have the melanoidin I thought I had. I could get some easily enough. I have to get distilled water anyway.

The carapils is already mixed in with the pilsner. Dumped them in one bag when I bought them.

I was thinking of adding a little carafe II to get to about 6 SRM.

It surely won’t be a spot on Urquell clone but hopefully it will be a decent pilsner I can use as a base recipe to try and get closer to Urquell in the future. There may even be a decoction in that future search…

[quote=“dannyboy58”]I’m not planning on decocting. I don’t have the melanoidin I thought I had. I could get some easily enough. I have to get distilled water anyway.

The carapils is already mixed in with the pilsner. Dumped them in one bag when I bought them.

I was thinking of adding a little carafe II to get to about 6 SRM.

It surely won’t be a spot on Urquell clone but hopefully it will be a decent pilsner I can use as a base recipe to try and get closer to Urquell in the future. There may even be a decoction in that future search…[/quote]

Just for the record, I did a pilsner a while back with pilsen and carapils, used Saaz hops and fermented with WY2278. The color was very light, but it tasted surprisingly like Pilsner Urquell.

[quote=“65SS427”][quote=“dannyboy58”]I’m not planning on decocting. I don’t have the melanoidin I thought I had. I could get some easily enough. I have to get distilled water anyway.

The carapils is already mixed in with the pilsner. Dumped them in one bag when I bought them.

I was thinking of adding a little carafe II to get to about 6 SRM.

It surely won’t be a spot on Urquell clone but hopefully it will be a decent pilsner I can use as a base recipe to try and get closer to Urquell in the future. There may even be a decoction in that future search…[/quote]

Just for the record, I did a pilsner a while back with pilsen and carapils, used Saaz hops and fermented with WY2278. The color was very light, but it tasted surprisingly like Pilsner Urquell.[/quote]
Now I’m psyched!

Do you mind sharing your hop schedule? I have 4 oz of 3.5aa Czech saaz.

[quote=“dannyboy58”][quote=“65SS427”][quote=“dannyboy58”]I’m not planning on decocting. I don’t have the melanoidin I thought I had. I could get some easily enough. I have to get distilled water anyway.

The carapils is already mixed in with the pilsner. Dumped them in one bag when I bought them.

I was thinking of adding a little carafe II to get to about 6 SRM.

It surely won’t be a spot on Urquell clone but hopefully it will be a decent pilsner I can use as a base recipe to try and get closer to Urquell in the future. There may even be a decoction in that future search…[/quote]

Just for the record, I did a pilsner a while back with pilsen and carapils, used Saaz hops and fermented with WY2278. The color was very light, but it tasted surprisingly like Pilsner Urquell.[/quote]
Now I’m psyched!

Do you mind sharing your hop schedule? I have 4 oz of 3.5aa Czech saaz.[/quote]

Sure thing. I used the same 3.5aa Saaz, 1.75 oz of pellets at 60 min, .8 oz at 15 min. The IBUs were a little lower than is characteristic of PU at about 30 or so, but otherwise it was pretty darn close flavorwise. When I brew it again, I’ll probably up the hops to 2-2.25 oz at 60 minutes and maybe 1-1.25 at 15 minutes. That should bring it up to around 40 IBUs or so.

I brewed my latest pils with Avenguard pils malt and 5% melanoidin. I did a single infusion mash and it came out great. I have done decoctions for many years, and have not gotten the Czech pils color and malt flavor that the melanoidin malt adds. I split a batch between Bohemian lager yeast and PU 2001. I am drinking the Bohemian version right now, and it is crisp, slightly woody and refreshing in addition to being malty and hoppy. The other 5 gallons has a bit of diacetyl, but it is a bit less carbonated at this point so I am not sure I am getting the true character of this keg yet. It is important to use the freshest hops you can find. I bittered with Sterling and it smelled so good, I used a 50/50 mix of Sterling and Saaz for flavor and aroma. The Saaz had very little aroma so I did not trust they would come through on the flavor and aroma I was looking for. This was a good call.

My next experiment is to add 2.5% cara-Vienne to add a hint more color and complexity to the malt profile. I have also thought about mixing those two yeast strains for 5 gallons. I like the light woody character from the Bohemian and a hint of diacetyl from the 2001.

[quote=“65SS427”]

Just for the record, I did a pilsner a while back with pilsen and carapils, used Saaz hops and fermented with WY2278. The color was very light, but it tasted surprisingly like Pilsner Urquell.[/quote]
Now I’m psyched!

Do you mind sharing your hop schedule? I have 4 oz of 3.5aa Czech saaz.[/quote]

Sure thing. I used the same 3.5aa Saaz, 1.75 oz of pellets at 60 min, .8 oz at 15 min. The IBUs were a little lower than is characteristic of PU at about 30 or so, but otherwise it was pretty darn close flavorwise. When I brew it again, I’ll probably up the hops to 2-2.25 oz at 60 minutes and maybe 1-1.25 at 15 minutes. That should bring it up to around 40 IBUs or so.[/quote]
I’m boiling 2 oz saaz for 90 and 1.5 for 15 which puts it at 45IBU, supposedly right in the Urquell sweet spot so I think I’ll try that this time. I’m lowering the caraga II to about .3% of the grist for color and will add it late in the mash so it shouldn’t impart much if any flavor.

slightly off-topic, but I don’t brew a lot of lagers, and the ones I have, I haven’t noticed a huge different pre and post extended cold storage/lagering. Do you Urquell disciples find that the beer is substantially improved after the lagering period?

Yes. Lagering is an important aspect of the process.

Lagering makes a huge difference. I used to have a fridge that could only go down to 40 in the summer. I brewed a pils with a friend and his version lagered at 34 while mine lagered at 40. His was much better than mine. It was crisper and the hop character was so much better. Now I have a small chest freezer that I can get down to 33 to lager. My summer lagers are much better now.

Last year I brew a Pilsner Urquell clone using old-school methods: SMASH recipe with undermodified pilsner malt and Saaz hops, 3 hour 4x decoction mash, 4 hour boil. Used very soft water with no mineral additions. The beer took months to come into its own, but when it finally did it was very good. I would not have enjoyed it without the long lager.

Tasted my Czech Pils today. Brewed 11/1/2014, began lagering 11/17/14, 8-9psi, 32-34 degrees 5 weeks.

Recipe below:

BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Czech Pilsner
Brewer: Danny
Asst Brewer:
Style: Bohemian Pilsner
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications

Boil Size: 7.17 gal
Post Boil Volume: 5.67 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.25 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.052 SG
Estimated Color: 4.7 SRM
Estimated IBU: 41.7 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 83.0 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:

Amt Name Type # %/IBU
9 lbs Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 97.0 %
4.0 oz Carafoam (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 2.7 %
0.4 oz Carafa II (412.0 SRM) Grain 3 0.3 %
2.00 oz Saaz [3.60 %] - Boil 90.0 min Hop 4 29.3 IBUs
1.50 oz Saaz [3.60 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 5 12.4 IBUs
0.50 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 6 -
2.0 pkg Urquell Lager (Wyeast Labs #2001) [124.2 Yeast 7 -

Mash Schedule: BIAB - Danny’s
Total Grain Weight: 9 lbs 4.4 oz

Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash in Kettle Add 19.98 qt of water at 159.7 F 152.0 F 60 min
Sparge Add 17.81 qt of water at 187.7 F 168.0 F 10 min

Sparge: Fly sparge with -1.17 gal water at 168.0 F
Notes:

mashed in with dist h20 and salts 152 5.4ph
BK pH 5.4 1.047 preboil
really good brew session though long
80 minute mash, 90 minute boil
fermented at 50
11/10 - let temp start to rise in cooler
11/11 - temp rose to 62 K fell
11/17 - kegged and started lagering, tastes pretty good
12/24 - Very clear and brite. Still doesn’t seem like the CO2 is hydrolyzed yet. A little more pale than Urguell but I didn’t decoct.

It’s good but needs more bittering hops. It will be a great lawn mower or cookout beer this spring but should be much drier and crisper. I know the german beers are generally brewed with softer water but I think more sulfates would help it.

The base beer is good for an urquell clone…but it’s not bitter/sharp enough. Could use a little more spice in the aroma.

Probably could go 2.5-3 oz Saaz at 90, maybe 1.75-2oz at 20 for more spicy taste/aroma

The waiting thing I guess is what lagers are all about. Now that you know, you can tweak em’ in to your taste. The Mai-Bock that I do usually takes 6 mos. before it’s really good. I rely heavily on my notes to make sure everything is done just so. The reward is well worth the wait tho.

Just finished this off a couple weeks ago and have been contemplating changes to the recipe prior to brewing again, maybe this week.

This was a really good beer but more Helles-like to me. I bit too soft and sweet for a pils which strange given the projected IBUs. I did bag the hops in the boil so I guess that could account for a 10% or so reduction.

I also feel like there was just a bit more body/sweetness than I want…maybe reduce the carafoam to 2 oz? I do want a bit of head and I suppose if I remove the carafoam the pils alone won’t give much right?

I’m thinking of actually going to tradition for bittering and hersbrucker for the 20 min addition since that recipe gave me a really nice spicy bite in a vienna I made last year. It won’t be strictly an Urquell clone at that point but as long as I get the pils character i want I really don’t care. Would also save me a bit on hops since I have those on hand.

Any suggestions or ideas here?

[quote=“dannyboy58”]Just finished this off a couple weeks ago and have been contemplating changes to the recipe prior to brewing again, maybe this week.

This was a really good beer but more Helles-like to me. I bit too soft and sweet for a pils which strange given the projected IBUs. I did bag the hops in the boil so I guess that could account for a 10% or so reduction.

I also feel like there was just a bit more body/sweetness than I want…maybe reduce the carafoam to 2 oz? I do want a bit of head and I suppose if I remove the carafoam the pils alone won’t give much right?

I’m thinking of actually going to tradition for bittering and hersbrucker for the 20 min addition since that recipe gave me a really nice spicy bite in a vienna I made last year. It won’t be strictly an Urquell clone at that point but as long as I get the pils character i want I really don’t care. Would also save me a bit on hops since I have those on hand.

Any suggestions or ideas here?[/quote] Here lately I really been digging on Spalt select with Saaz with a lot of my lagers. Together they complement each other very well little spicy and kinda floral and a lot of ways reminds me of how the hops are in pilsner urquell.

[quote=“damian_winter”][quote=“dannyboy58”]Just finished this off a couple weeks ago and have been contemplating changes to the recipe prior to brewing again, maybe this week.

This was a really good beer but more Helles-like to me. I bit too soft and sweet for a pils which strange given the projected IBUs. I did bag the hops in the boil so I guess that could account for a 10% or so reduction.

I also feel like there was just a bit more body/sweetness than I want…maybe reduce the carafoam to 2 oz? I do want a bit of head and I suppose if I remove the carafoam the pils alone won’t give much right?

I’m thinking of actually going to tradition for bittering and hersbrucker for the 20 min addition since that recipe gave me a really nice spicy bite in a vienna I made last year. It won’t be strictly an Urquell clone at that point but as long as I get the pils character i want I really don’t care. Would also save me a bit on hops since I have those on hand.

Any suggestions or ideas here?[/quote] Here lately I really been digging on Spalt select with Saaz with a lot of my lagers. Together they complement each other very well little spicy and kinda floral and a lot of ways reminds me of how the hops are in pilsner urquell.[/quote]
What’s the schedule like Damian? Are you combining them or using them at different times?