PH Meters and calibration solutions

[dannyboy58]

Hasn't really been a recent thread on pH meters so I'll just start a new one.

My last pH meter broke over a year ago and I brewed without it for a while. Just recently purchased another Milwaukee ph55.

When I went to calibrate the new meter I figured I'd just use the solutions I had on hand which were bottled solutions from probaby two years ago. The meter liked the 7.0 solution but when I moved it to the 4.0 in the second step of calibration it kept failing.

So I opened the little packets of solutions they sent me and calibrated the meter. Then read the old bottled solutions to see what I got. The 7/0 read 7.1 but the 4.0 solution read 5.1 confirming my past suspicions that there's a limited shelf life on the solutions.

Anyone have experience with solutions that last longer or should I just buy a few of the little packets to keep around. The bottles are pretty expensive if they're not going to last.

[sneezles61]

I have 2 bottles, one of each... I haven't compared them to a fresh set... So, mine could be off... I do keep them in the fridge... I will pour them into little snit glasses for calibrating... Then dump them back into their containers..
So when I set up to calibrate, sometimes the 4.01 rejects it.. but it tries again and it seems to accept it... I rinse in-between readings on brew day.. I use bottled water for the storage solution... Sometimes, I do check the pH of the star san, it reads just below 3.0.... I suppose I could compare to distilled water after I calibrate to verify... Now I'll need to do some investigating to see whats, what... Sneezles61
EDIT: Went to Hanna meters and read their info... I am thoroughly convinced I should get some new product... Oh dear...

[dannyboy58]

Had trouble calibrating my brand new meter yesterday, Milwaukee ph55, mentioned above in the OP. I had just two weeks ago purchased new calibrating solutions from amazon.

The brand is Biopharm. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LVU1UD1/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Meter calibrated to the 7.01 but when I used the 4.0 is kept saying WRNG. I knew it calibrated with the small packaged solutions and had used similar ones successfully prior to getting the Biopharm solutions. The Biopharm worked last week but not yesterday.

General Hydroponics:

Amazon.com: General Hydroponics Ph 4.01 & Ph 7.0 Calibration Solution Kit, 8 oz: Garden & Outdoor

So I ordered another set of calibrating solutions from General Hydroponics which I'd used before. Got them this morning and meter calibrated the very first time. No problem. Put it in the Biopharm solutions and the 7.01 read 7.1, the 4.0 read 3.6. So in less than two weeks the Biopharm solution had degraded....not good...sending it back to amazon and just wanted to warn you guys don't buy them.

The general hyroponics solutions always worked well for me. Only reason I tried another was the old bottle of 4.0 I had was no good but it was 2-3 years old.

[sneezles61]

I received my new solutions yesterday... I need to compare.. Since I goofed off yesterday... I won't brew until next W/E... I have a hard time believing that the solution can really go bad... Sealed and refrigerated... I'll know soon enough... Sneezles61

[dannyboy58]

... I have a hard time believing that the solution can really go bad... Sealed and refrigerated... I'll know soon enough... Sneezles61

So did I until it did.

[sneezles61]

Now a follow up... Just calibrated with brand new solutions... THEN, I checked my older solutions... NO DIFFERENCE!! I think the big propaganda machine is having you dump out good solutions so the company that makes them keeps busy... making them... My take on it.. I feel very confident from here out... Sneezles61

[dannyboy58]

Well there's you definitive truth. I guess I just dreamed it all.

[sneezles61]

I have a hard time believing stuff like this can go awry, while its capped... No off gassing... Not even a catalyst from UV rays or the such... But then, I'm a carpenter... not a scientist... I hope this puts some minds as ease... But don't forget to rinse the probe whenever you use it... Sneezles61

[dannyboy58]

Well I mean yea...with all your exhaustive research on the matter this definitely concludes the thread. buffers never ever go bad. Would you care to include a statement that they're always correct as well? never a bad batch?

Gimme a greak @sneezles61

Hanna instruments has a statement on their website:

"Hanna Tip: Our calibration solutions are designed to have a long shelf life when left unopened. Once opened, a buffer with a pH lower than 7 will last around 3-6 months, while a buffer with a pH over 7 will be good for about 1-3 months."

While I may agree with you that the manufacturer and seller of the solutions might have an agenda of his own in making this statement your contention that they can't "go awry" is nonsense and proven by my experience alone. Unless you're suggesting that my brand new meter is bad or that I don't know how to use it?

What I was hoping for was more anecdotal evidence of how long they may be trusted. How old was your old bottle that tested true?

[sneezles61]

The 2 testing solutions are over 3 years old.. I'm not about to say my theories are a proven and there fore without and unequivocally sound .... YET... here is what I found... IF you want to believe in your findings... I'm not about to test your waters... My simple findings puts me at ease... ... And I can not give you a greak... We are a tight knit family here... and we do have to challenge all the ideas... Sneezles61

[dannyboy58]

Well I've never kept mine in the fridge so maybe I'll give that a shot. I've also never reused them. Once I pour them and use them I just tossed them out.

[sneezles61]

Its just how I do my stuff... Simple? Sneezles61

[dannyboy58]

My recent struggles with pH continue...I'm beginning to distrust my new meter. Today I'm brewing a ESB. Put my info in brunwater which is always spot on and adjusted to 5.39 mash pH. Added my salts and acid to the strike water like I always do. Mashed in. Took a pH reading 15 mins in...4.9!!! WT...scratched my jaw...hummed hawed...let the mash finish...took a pH of the first runnings 4.8, kettle after sparge 4.9...ugh....added some baking soda to get it up to 5.2...last thing I need is to be adding bicarb to my well water...but I didn't want an acid bomb in the glass either...

I even calibrated the meter before hand. It failed first time on the 4.0 like it's done a couple times before. It calibrated second time and read my water correctly at 7.1...

Really vexed and annoyed...has to be the meter...BW has always been reliable...

[sneezles61]

I'm going to trust the meter... If you've calibrated it... Why would it be off? Not banging on the brew calculators, rather thinking they are a "close enough" for this stuff program... I'd be asking Martin about this... What IS the correct action? Sneezles61

[dannyboy58]

Brunwater has never been off by that much for me or anyone else I know that uses it. This meter has been sketchy since day one. That's why i started this thread remember?

I corrected the kettle based on the meter. So we'll see. The results may show if my mash wash pH way low.

[MikeBeer]

I read your "pH Meters and Calibration Solutions" discussion with Sneezles61 and I'm wondering where you landed on pH testing. Did you settle on a meter that gives consistent, accurate readings? I don't own one and only want to buy it once. (I have already made that mistake several times).

[dannyboy58]

I'm not sure what was going on that brew day but the meter has been much easier to calibrate which I do every brew day.

I also have realized that I need to take my strike water pH sample from the filled kettle rather than just starting with my usual 7.1 water pH. Apparently my kettle lowers the pH a bit. Residue from previous brewing maybe?

I definitely had a bad batch of calibrating solutions as well. I forget the manufacturer but I think I posted about it in this thread. I went back to the solutions I've used for years and calibration has been fine.

[sneezles61]

Some of waters "buffering" capabilities are released, off gassed, when you expose your water to the atmosphere. I fill up to my quantity, then test with my calibrated meter every time I brew... Well except for a dark brew. Sneezles61