My brewing so far and looking for help problem solving

I am looking for direction and pointers. For some background I have listed my first 3 brews and then a detailed explanation of my 4th brew with questions:

1st brew was the Caribou Slobber extract kit. This turned out WAY TOO sweet. I believe this is due to boiling too aggressively and pitching the yeast at too high of a temp. My neighbor likes it so it wasn’t a total loss. I did not get a starting gravity on this batch as my hydrometer broke the first time I tried to use it.

2nd brew was American Icon extract kit. This one turned out OK but I am not sure what it was supposed to turn out to be, got it free with a purchase. I would describe it as a White IPA but with less hops. I did not get a starting gravity on this batch either but it’s totally drinkable. Hurray, I made beer that I would drink!

3rd brew was a German Alt Ale extract kit. The OG should have been 1.052 but came in at 1.048, not sure why I missed the OG. This one is still fermenting at 62 degrees and I am hopeful!

4th batch was brewed yesterday and has created quite a few questions. I brewed the Off The Topper extract kit and used Vermont Ale Yeast “The Yeast Bay”. This was my first time using liquid yeast.

I built a stir plate from a PC fan like the ones you see on the million youtube videos and put the yeast starter together at 7p on Sat night using Fast Pitch. I now understand where the term “caked on” comes from as I had to dig out the yeast of the vile with a sanitized butter knife. The room temp was about 62 degrees and Erlenmeyer flask was on the stir plate till 11p-ish when it was unplugged, my son thought it should be turned off before he went to bed. I put it back on in the morning around 7a and it went till about 7p, all the while the room temp was in the low to mid 60s.

The brewing it’s self went well with the exception of the last 15 mins. It took the wort 10-15 mins to return to boil after adding the 45 min malt extract and I didn’t count this time in the 60 min cook time which added time to the brew. I wonder what kind of effect the additional 10-15 mins (was not boiling) had on the brew.

After the flame out additions the wort cooled down to 180 quickly for the late addition of hops to steep for 15 mins. After that I retuned it to the ice water bath in the sink but it seemed to take quite a while to cool down to 80 degrees. Once it got down to 80 degrees I poured it into the 6 gal carboy with 2 gallons of room temperature water. The directions said to fill up to 6 gallons but I took a gravity reading once the total volume was at 5 gallons (maybe 4-1/2 after some evaporated during the boil) and it came in at 1.065. Now this is where I failed at simple math because my target OG was 1.070 and I thought it was a good idea to add another half gallon of water based on the instructions. I know… I know. This put my starting gravity at 1.060, well below my target.

But wait, it gets better…

I missed the optimum temp of 70 degrees after adding cold water to the wort and pitched the yeast around 60-62 degrees. This morning the Carboy shows a temp of 68 degrees and there is a thin layer of kreuzen on top.

I think the two biggest issues to address are hitting target OG and temperature for both the yeast starter and the fermentation stage.

I think the temperature issue is pretty easy to address, I will turn on the heat.

I would love to understand what I am doing incorrectly to miss my OG by so much. I was supposed to add another half to whole gallon of water which would have brought my OG down even further.

Any feedback or guidance to get better results would be appreciated and well received.

Thanks!

Bobby

Doing extract you should not have a problem with the gravity as long as you have your volumes correct. So two things IMO you are not reading your volumes correctly or you are not using your hydrometer correctly. Are you correcting for temperature. Are you getting all the extract into the pot. I wouldn’t subtract the time waiting for the boil to resume after you add hops or extract. Start your time from when you add your first hops addition usually 60 min.

It’s quite likely that you’re just not getting your wort mixed well after adding the top up water. If you use all the ingredients and hit your volumes correctly you’ll be very close to the expected OG doing extact.

[quote]I missed the optimum temp of 70 degrees after adding cold water to the wort and pitched the yeast around 60-62 degrees. This morning the Carboy shows a temp of 68 degrees and there is a thin layer of kreuzen on top.
You pitched at the right temperature despite what the instructions were. The high pitching temperature is often given to kick off the fermentation faster. This works if you have the means to control the temperature of the fermenting wort. Fermentations produce heat. It is more difficult to lower the fermentation temperature, which can affect the yeast negatively, than it is to keep the temperature from going to high. The optimum fermentation temperature for this yeast is 64° to 70°F. Wyeast recommends the temperature be raised to 70°, after 5 to 7 days of active fermentation, to finish.

Yeast starters are less sensitive to temperature, as long as the temperature is within the yeasts range. 62° is okay, 68° to 72°, on your kitchen counter would be better. Warmer just means it will finish faster.

I think the two biggest issues to address are hitting target OG and temperature for both the yeast starter and the fermentation stage.

[color=#0000BF]OG with an extract kit is pretty much a sure thing unless you were shorted on fermentables or received more than the recipe calls for. Using all the fermentables for the recipe, and having the correct volume in the fermentor, will equal the estimated OG. Readings other than the estimated OG is most likely due to the wort not being thoroughly mixed. SG samples are from an area of the wort with less, or more, denser sugars. I don’t take a OG reading with extract brews anymore, unless I just want a taste.

The yeast will take care of mixing the wort that your aeration did not fully accomplish.[/color]

I think the temperature issue is pretty easy to address, I will turn on the heat.

Most yeasts ferment best when the first few days of active fermentation are in the yeasts mid range.

I would love to understand what I am doing incorrectly to miss my OG by so much. I was supposed to add another half to whole gallon of water which would have brought my OG down even further.

Any feedback or guidance to get better results would be appreciated and well received. [/quote]

I hope this helps. Post back with questions.

Temps- Actually, 62 sounds pretty nice, to me. 68 is more troublesome, in general. Search the forum for “fermentation temperature” for all you could ever want to know about ideal temps and temp control.

Lower gravity- I’m guessing things just not getting mixed well is most of it, as extract mixes stratify pretty easily. However, are you getting all of the syrup out of the jugs? Add some hot water to the jugs after your additions and swirl around… you want every last bit out of them.

In addition to what everyone else said you should verify your hydrometer reads correctly. The gravity of plain water (adjusted for temperature) should be 1.000. My hydrometer reads 3 points high so I have to take off 0.003 in addition to adjusting for temperature.

For getting it cooled down after boil…

I purchased the serpentine chiller on here…and it does wonders. Usually I just sit it pot in the utility sink…put the sanitized chiller in…and let er’ rip. It helps also if after the initial water flow starts to cool off…run that around the outside of the pot…be careful not to get anything into wort.

My last 2 brews I have had chilled down to around 80 degree in about 10-15 minutes tops. If you use an ice bath around…you will be done even quicker.

Good luck!

Just to add to the advice that is already out there, when using liquid yeast, I like to take it out of the fridge about 30 min before I’m going to pitch it into the starter. If its a white labs vial (as opposed to wyeast bag), I’ll crack the vial enough to break the seal and allow it to gas out. Put this in a glass so it stands upright otherwise you will end up with yeast on the counter.

Right before I’m about to pitch, i tighten the vial lid again and shake violently till the yeast is no longer stuck to the sides. It may take a little while and the closer to room temp the yeast is the easier this is. What this will leave you with is all the yeast fully dissolved in the solution so it pours into the flask nice and easily. This should prevent the need for a knife and reduce the risk of contamination.

Thank you very much for all the great advice!

I have responded to everyone below but have one more general question. Do recipes account for the water that evaporates during the 60 min boil? Seems like it takes 5 1/4 - 5 1/2 gallons of water to make a 5 gallon batch. Should I limit my water additions to 5 gallons or should the carboy be filled to 5 gallons resulting in a total of 5 1/4 - 5 1/2?

This is the first time I have heard about correcting for temperature. I googled it and if I am using the calculator correctly I get an extra .002 but that’s an extra .002 I never knew about.

The more I think I think about it, the more I think you’re right for at least for part of my OG problem. More on that in my reply to BarbarianBrewer.

Yes it does, thank you!

[quote=“uberculture”]Temps- Actually, 62 sounds pretty nice, to me. 68 is more troublesome, in general. Search the forum for “fermentation temperature” for all you could ever want to know about ideal temps and temp control.

Lower gravity- I’m guessing things just not getting mixed well is most of it, as extract mixes stratify pretty easily. However, are you getting all of the syrup out of the jugs? Add some hot water to the jugs after your additions and swirl around… you want every last bit out of them.[/quote]

I was going by the directions from the yeast company but I do recall you giving me similar advice with the dry yeast. Seems strange for a beginner that the brewing supply store and yeast manufacturer say one thing and everything I read from home brewers say something else. It’s hard to believe either side of the advice would be directly wrong. Perhaps there is a piece I am misunderstanding.

That’s very interesting! I just tested it and the first reading was off by .01, the same amount my batch was off by. I then noticed a cluster of bubbles under it adding buoyancy. I lifted the hydrometer out and slowly lowered it back in and it was off by .003 but I didn’t see any bubbles. I have repeated this a few times now and it looks like it will give a variety of readings (.003 - .001) depending on which side of the hydrometer test jar it leans towards. This was very educational.

A wort chiller is my next investment! I am hooked and it’s becoming clear that I will be transitioning to all grain at some point. I want a cooling solution that transitions well. I see a lot of people using the plate chillers and am still undecided.

[quote=“mattnaik”][quote=“cleveland”]Just to add to the advice that is already out there, when using liquid yeast, I like to take it out of the fridge about 30 min before I’m going to pitch it into the starter. If its a white labs vial (as opposed to wyeast bag), I’ll crack the vial enough to break the seal and allow it to gas out. Put this in a glass so it stands upright otherwise you will end up with yeast on the counter.

Right before I’m about to pitch, i tighten the vial lid again and shake violently till the yeast is no longer stuck to the sides. It may take a little while and the closer to room temp the yeast is the easier this is. What this will leave you with is all the yeast fully dissolved in the solution so it pours into the flask nice and easily. This should prevent the need for a knife and reduce the risk of contamination.[/quote][/quote]

That’s a great idea, I will try that next time.

Thanks again for everyones feedback and advice!

Recipes do not account for boil off, the amount of water loss during your boil. This varies from one setup and location to another, even depending upon the weather on a given day to a smaller degree. You need to keep notes on your brew day. What volume did you begin the boil with and then how much top off water you need to get your target volume/OG in the fermenter. Once you know your boil off rate you’ll be able to adjust your pre-boil volume to reach to desired target volume into the fermenter for full volume boils.

Read Palmer’s How to Brew if you haven’t…or read it again. The online version is fine for a start then keep hanging around here and reading all the posts you can. Most of all have fun brewing.

Couple things going on here:

  1. yeast companies are mainly worried about the performance of their yeast, not necessarily making the best beer. The company wants to know what their attenuation and flocculation rates are. Brewers care more about what temps provide the best flavor while trying to get the best performance. There is a trade off… I will use a temp that provides the best flavor even if it means my FG ends at 1.013 rather than 1.010.

  2. instructions are also written in the most easy manner to make the beer. Could you imagine getting into the hobby if you read that you MUST cool the wort to 60° to 65° AND maintain those temps! Most people would prob think twice about starting. In addition, some directions are just old and there are many more yeast options available.

[quote=“dannyboy58”]Recipes do not account for boil off, the amount of water loss during your boil. This varies from one setup and location to another, even depending upon the weather on a given day to a smaller degree. You need to keep notes on your brew day. What volume did you begin the boil with and then how much top off water you need to get your target volume/OG in the fermenter. Once you know your boil off rate you’ll be able to adjust your pre-boil volume to reach to desired target volume into the fermenter for full volume boils.

Read Palmer’s How to Brew if you haven’t…or read it again. The online version is fine for a start then keep hanging around here and reading all the posts you can. Most of all have fun brewing.[/quote]

I have been thinking about keeping a log and this sounds like a great reason to start. Do you increase your boil by the amount you expect to boil off or just add it when transitioning to the carboy? Does it matter which stage you add the water?

How to Brew is now on my book list, thanks!

Couple things going on here:

  1. yeast companies are mainly worried about the performance of their yeast, not necessarily making the best beer. The company wants to know what their attenuation and flocculation rates are. Brewers care more about what temps provide the best flavor while trying to get the best performance. There is a trade off… I will use a temp that provides the best flavor even if it means my FG ends at 1.013 rather than 1.010.

  2. instructions are also written in the most easy manner to make the beer. Could you imagine getting into the hobby if you read that you MUST cool the wort to 60° to 65° AND maintain those temps! Most people would prob think twice about starting. In addition, some directions are just old and there are many more yeast options available.[/quote]

That makes a lot of sense, thanks.

When you add the water depends on how big your vessel is and your process. If you’re doing partial boils due to kettle size then you can top up in the fermenter which also helps with chilling.

Most brewers prefer to do full volume boils for better hops utilization so we adjust the preboil volume to compensate for boil off. I like to put 5.25 gals in the fermenter to compensate for trub loss and I lose about a quart to my system so I shoot for 5.5 gallons post boil. I know I lose about 1.1 gallons to boil off so I generally begin my boil with 6.5-6.75 gallons in the kettle.