Thanks for the replies! Just one more question regarding batch vs. fly sparging. I know for fly sparging, you’re supposed to keep your grains saturated to keep the grain bed from compacting and releasing tannins, but for batch sparging you should drain your 1st runnings until you’re completely empty? Then add your sparge water for the 2nd runnings? Would that not release the same tannins?
Just curious as this would have contributed to my low gravity; I haven’t been draining my wort all the way, as I didn’t want to compact the grain bed.
Tannins are only an issue with temperature too high (180F+) and pH too high (~5.8+). Go ahead and drain all your first runnings, and then add your sparge water if you’re batch sparging.
[quote=“arctic_brewer”]Thanks for the replies! Just one more question regarding batch vs. fly sparging. I know for fly sparging, you’re supposed to keep your grains saturated to keep the grain bed from compacting and releasing tannins, but for batch sparging you should drain your 1st runnings until you’re completely empty? Then add your sparge water for the 2nd runnings? Would that not release the same tannins?
Just curious as this would have contributed to my low gravity; I haven’t been draining my wort all the way, as I didn’t want to compact the grain bed.[/quote]
The physics at work for batch sparging and fly sparging are different. You don’t need to worry about tannin extraction with batch sparging because the pH will never go up enough to cause that. With fly sparging, it could at the very end when almost all the sugar has been extracted but there is still a lot of liquid flowing through the grain bed. Compacting wouldn’t be an issue either, as you simply stir up the grain when you add your sparge water. The down side being that you need to recirculate again before you drain the sparge.
But yes, drain the grain bed as much as you can before adding your sparge water (add it all at once) to increase efficiency when batch sparging.
Well if we want to get specific, it extends to both all-grain and extract. You’re picking up condensed tannins from not just the grain, but also from hop material in the boil. You can also get hydrolysable tannins from wood or fruit additions. But I should have said, you can minimize your condensed tannin extraction by controlling your sparge water pH and keeping the temperature below 180 or so. Of course you’ll still get some. :cheers:
Honestly, about 90% of the beers I make these days are sours or wild beers, and I’ve been playing around with ways to enhance and increase tannin content within what is appropriate for the style! This last weekend I sparged at 180F and boiled for 2.5 hours with aged hops, and had about a cup of flaked wheat tossed right in the boil. But I’m also going to be letting this one sit for over a year. So I don’t think I’d be of any help in reducing them, I think we’re going in two different directions. I’m very interested in hearing your results, though!
Yep, we’re going in different directions. An interesting thing I picked up is that some brewers actually add tannic acid to the mash and/or boil to reduce proteins as well as winemakers add tannins to certain wines. Easy enough to add… http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/winemaking/wine-ingredients/wine-tannin
It was also interesting to find out the main reason “oaking” mellows things is due to the tannins in the wood.
It depends on your water. My batch sparge pH behaves as rebuilt noted. Your data may only apply to your situation.[/quote]
I did start acidifying my sparge water when I started to use Bru’n water, but the amount it calls for (with my very soft water) is so little that I’m pretty sure it makes no practical difference.
Lucky you! My water is 90ppm alkalinity which is half decent but my sparge still creeps up. The acid addition also helps setup overall pH and helps flavor too.
Yes, very lucky. 28ppm alkalinity. I’ve actually been able to make light lagers with straight tap water, but that does require a long acid rest to bring pH down.
It depends on your water. My batch sparge pH behaves as rebuilt noted. Your data may only apply to your situation.[/quote]
Same here.
Gotta say that switching to the ‘batch sparge’ around two or three years ago (after more than 30 years of stubbornly doing it the other way) has had a significant effect on my results, in both efficiency and end results.
(Thanks, Denny :mrgreen: )
It depends on your water. My batch sparge pH behaves as rebuilt noted. Your data may only apply to your situation.[/quote]
Same here.
Gotta say that switching to the ‘batch sparge’ around two or three years ago (after more than 30 years of stubbornly doing it the other way) has had a significant effect on my results, in both efficiency and end results.
(Thanks, Denny :mrgreen: )[/quote]
This info is awesome, thanks! I guess I should start to delve into the realm of checking my water pH… It’ll happen sooner or later. Best to learn when it’s not going to be too much of an issue to begin with.
Sorry to derail the thread. Getting back to it, I think failing to fully drain was main culprit as suggested. Acidfying sparge also helps this, minimizes tannin extraction, and sets up overall pH for the brew. Depending on your water of course. :cheers:
