I BIAB 5-6 gallon batches and average between 3.5 and 4 hours, depending on how lazy I am (aka how much ‘other’ stuff I am trying to do) during the process. I have a central house charcoal filter as well as a second under my sink so I use ‘preheated’ strike water that comes out of my faucet between 120* and 130*. Only need to heat it 20-30* more for strike temp. Also, I begin heating my wort aggressively for the boil once I pull my bag and start a batch sparge, then add the sparge wort to the kettle.
Finally, I only chill to around 110 or so with my IC then chill the rest of the way in my ferment fridge, so I guess if I had to admit it, there is another 15 minutes in my process when I transfer/decant the chilled wort and pitch yeast.
Have yet to experiment with shortened boils (less than 60 minutes) except on wild ales, but I imagine if you use hop extract or adjust IBU’s, that would cut time as well. I have read a few anecdotal ‘studies’ that suggest 60 minute boils are arbitrary and nothing more than a that’s-the-way-we’ve-always-done-it method. A lot of others swear by 30 minute mashes.
Other simple time-savers include measuring hops during mash, cleaning cold-side stuff during mash, and generally making the most of your time when something else (like a chiller or burner) is working for you.
Even if you do 60 minute boils and 60 minute mashes, that is 120 minutes. Take a look at where the rest of the time goes and think about where it can be shortened.
I’m not quite down to 3.5 hrs as I do 2 corny keg batches so water heating takes more time but where I save time over your breakdown is:
I don’t let wait for my cooler to come up to temp, I just crack the lid enough to get the tubing through to add water so it is heating up while the water is moving from my HLT to the cooler (-10 min)
only mash for 45 minutes for a lot of beers, particularly when the mash temp is higher (-15 min)
I don’t wait that time for sugars to ‘settle’, they are in solution and there is not need for them to settle. I just keep stirring while sparge water is being added (-10 min)
when doing a vorlauf I only need to run for about 30 seconds before the run off is clear of grain (-8 min between doing that twice)
From lights on in the garage to being fully cleaned up I’m usually in for 4.5-5 hrs for 12 gallons of finished wort.
Thanks for all the replies. The discussion brings to the forefront a number of thoughts and suspicions based on my few years of experience that we still don’t know all the facts. I guess a lot of things still need to be questioned.
We know that a good mash will convert in 40 minutes because we can get a negative iodine test at that point. We also see that the liquor has gone from milky (starch and water form a suspension) to clear (sugar and water form a solution). BUT, I thought there was some discussion regarding further cleavage of those sugar chains into more fermentable mono or disaccharides in that last 20 minutes of the hour leading to a higher attenuation of the wort. I guess this would be the homebrewers preference though. If you like a fuller bodied lower alcohol beer, you're done at 40 minutes. If you want a thinner bodied and higher alcohol beer, go the 60 minutes? Another related thought pertains to the whole idea of a mashout. Many of you aren't doing them anymore. The reasons behind doing one, from my understanding anyway, was to reduce the risk of a stuck mash (doesn't seem to happen at any temperature) and denature the enzymes responsible for starch conversion and sugar chain breakdown so we don't end up with a beer with a thin body. So, if we're not doing a mashout before the first sparge, and assuming most of the sugars and enzymes are in the first runnings in our BK continuing to undergo those biochemical reactions (unless we've already started applying heat to the BK, of course), and if it takes us a good 20 minutes to do all of this, then won't a 40 minute mash without a mashout and no heat applied to the BK be darn close to a 60 minute mash with a mashout? I certainly cannot see why the enzymes and sugars, once they are in solution, need to be in the mash for these reactions to continue to occur. So my conclusion is that as long as starch conversion has undergone by 40 minutes and you like the body and attenuation of the beer you're brewing, I now see how a 40 minute mash could work.
I always assumed the 60 minute boil was based upon isomerization of the hops. I'm assuming coagulation of hot break proteins happens before that point. I guess if you have hops to waste, you could up the boil addition and reduce boil time. But who wants to waste hops? And you still have to boil down to your fermentation volume unless you're really good at extracting sugars with smaller amounts of water.
It has always been my suspicion that aeration of wort is either not that big of a deal or very easy to do in a very short period of time. Last year, I took advantage of a sale on NB's website and bought one of those aquarium pump aeration kits. I was gearing up for AG, and it sounded like aeration was going to be more important. That thing has been a frustration ever since I bought it. The stone would float up and not stay in the wort. So I got creative with an old racking cane and pieces of tubing. The stone is attached at the end of the racking cane with a piece of tubing. Then I connect the aquarium pump tubing to the upper curved end of the racking cane with other adaptations of tubing. It works and stays at the bottom of the fermenter now, but within 5 minutes, the wort foams right up. I've never had a stuck fermentation with it or without it. Just rocking and splashing the beer as Dave mentioned worked just fine before I got this aeration system, so I'm really starting to think it's not really necessary, and again, another time expenditure that does not reap any rewards. Also, we know that oxygen is needed for yeast cell wall synthesis to allow budding and replication of yeast. BUT, what if we start out with a nice big healthy yeast starter? Don't we need less oxygen in the wort since we're starting with a lot higher number of yeast cells? Maybe we should be more focused on adding more yeast cells and less on aerating the wort? At any rate, 3 minutes of rocking the carboy instead of 15 minutes of aeration and rocking is another 12 minutes off the brew day.
For those of you transferring strike water into your cooler and immediately mashing, are you adding a few degrees to your strike water temperature to compensate for cooling? Are you not that worried about temperature drops during the mash? Thanks again.
As far as aeration I do the splash and shake method and generally a slight over pitch and have never had a problem. Also I do the full 60 min mash and 60 min boil. I’m just not that worried about the time. An extra 1/2 hr doing something I like is a bonus. Clean your tun while your boiling and get your chiller set up.
This is true, but to my experience, 40 minutes is that over-the-edge point of diminishing returns. You can mash longer and get more attenuation, but it’s like nothing, not enough to make any huge difference unless you mash really long for like 90 minutes or longer. Otherwise, a point or two difference in attenuation or final gravity just is not worth the extra time to me. I can very easily still get high attenuation based on yeast selection, in particular with Notty and US-05 or their liquid equivalents. There’s just no good reason I see to waste the time to get one more percent attenuation – you’ll never notice it in the taste.
The stuck mash thing is probably not true. There’s not much difference in viscosity between 150 and 170 F wort. Mashout is essentially worthless in a homebrewing setting where you’re going to immediately get your wort up towards a boil within 30 minutes or so anyway. It makes more sense for commercial breweries who may have thousands of gallons of sweet wort laying around for hours before they can finally get up to a boil.
Yes, exactly my point.
Yay!
All great points. The point I would prefer to make is that shorter boil time does not adversely impact beer flavor. Flavor is where it’s at. I don’t care about the process as long as flavor is not adversely impacted. Go as short on the boil as you want or as resources for hops etc. allow. If you want to save a buck on hops, boil longer. I usually don’t much care to save a dollar, but some folks do. And then there’s the fuel cost to consider. If using propane, how much money can you save by skipping 30 minutes or more on the boil every time you brew?
Yes yes yes yes yes. I don’t worry much about aeration anymore, as I’ve made great beer without it 10 years ago, and still do today. Also half the time these days, I use dry yeast, and yeast experts say that dry yeast doesn’t need to be aerated at all anyway. Boom. With liquid yeast, I’ll make a starter and aerate the heck out of the starter… so then who cares about aerating the wort all that much? Pitch a lot of healthy yeast and you really should be good to go.
Yes, add 10-12 degrees F to compensate for heat loss. After a batch or two, you’ll learn the magic adjustment number for your system. Then never pre-heat the tun again. It’s a wasted effort.
Also re: aeration if one believes it’s necessary…I always assumed if I have a thick layer of foam the beer must be pretty well aerated? Am I missing something here?
My aeratoin technique consists of pumping the wort through a plate chiller and allowing it to splash from the hose end high in the carboy. Usually have a very thick layer of foam on the wort when I reach fermenter volume.
Yeah, that’s kind of what I do these days too, Danny. Just drop the beer into the fermenter up high and let it splash a lot. Then do a little more rocking or shaking, if I feel like it… or not. I really don’t think it matters as long as your yeast is healthy.
Typical brew day for me today. I started strike water around 7:30 today treated it and milled my grain, mashed for 1 hour, heated sparge water to boil in HLT and rinsed pump, lines and chiller while mashing, pulled the bag after an hour and started the burner under first runnings, dropped in the FWH and started sparging from HLT, took FR gravity and pH, second runnings gravity and pH, then same from preboil, reached boil at about 9:20. boiled for 1 hour, chilled to 180, dropped in steeping hops and whirlpooled for for twenty minutes while chilling, then pumped through the plate chiller, 5.25 gals each in 2 fermenters chilled to 59, decanted and pitched the yeast starters and put them in the swamp coolers, cleaned everything up, left the rig drip drying, and it was about 12:15. I didn’t rush but I didn’t waste any time either. have to say referring to another thread recently, I thouroughly enjoyed the brew day.
Awesome! Just curious as to why you’re taking a pH reading of the wort. If the pH is off, are you going to adjust it with brewing salts or make a note of it for next time? Thank you for your response.
Managed a 3 hour and 40 minute brew day this morning from the time I started to yeast pitched. Set up the electric brew cart last night before heading to bed. Set the timer relay to start heating up the strike water just before 4 a.m. Got out of bed at 4:30 with the strike water at temp. Turned the valve to start filling the cooler MT and went to go get the grains. I was mashing within 20 minutes of getting out of bed. I did do a 60 minute mash but started the vorlauf at 50 minutes with my DC pump. At 60 minutes, I started filling the BK. Poured in the sparge water, gave it a good stir, vorlaufed for another 5 to 10 minutes, and finished filling the BK all the while the BK is already heating up the wort. I was probably boiling within 5 minutes of transfering the rest of the wort to the BK. Loving this setup. One thing I did find though is that I was really hopping. No time to grab a quick bowl of cereal when you progressing through the steps this quickly. It took exactly 1 more hour post yeast pitching to have everything cleaned and put away.
Awesome. Sigh. I guess I’ll have to settle for my 5 hour brew day. Went great and Bock is chilling at 47degrees but sub 4 hours for me is a pipe dream. I have too much going on and I enjoy it that way. Metal dvd’s, currently classic rock with Deep Purple keep things flowin’. I did have a bowl of cereal and still having to make a standard copper chiller work takes time. I got to pitching temp In about 40 minutes.
Don’t understand the obsession with shortening the brew day. I can probably shorten my day which is generally around 4 to 4.5 but I’m at a pace that I find enjoyable.
For me, it is more of a necessity than an obsession. If I wanted to fit in more brew days into my busy life, I had to figure out how to shorten the brew day. I’ve accomplished 4 beers since November. That never would have happened before. To be able to wake up 2 hours later than I used to on brew day and still finish before the kids wake up makes it a lot easier to get more brew days under my belt. Not sure why others do it, but that’s why I did it.
Well, my first 11 gallon batch is done and in the fermenters… from start to finish it was 5 and 1/2 hours. Of course, I had some delays, I spilled some grain measuring it out during prep and had to spend time cleaning my mess up. Then I had my HWT to get set up and had to re-engineer my MT. If I’d prep the grain and hop additions the night before and not have to mess with changing things with the equipment, I could probably easily make a 4 and 1/2 hour brew day.
Quite a change for me, my partial mash brewing on the stove was taking 8-9 hours for a brew day, not counting clean-up. As a result of that, I only brewed twice last year. Now that I have new equipment, it’s been a game changer. Granted, I’m going to be hopping to do the shorter time, but it’s nice being able to sit down at the end and not have to think about what all has to be cleaned yet.
Welcome to all grain and a more efficient brew day! You cut your brew day almost in half! That’s awesome! I’ve been AG brewing for about 15 months now and love it. I also used to take many hours to get through brew day. Hauling kettles of water and wort out to the cold and windy open porch to heat up on my propane burner and then hauling it back in for mashing, etc. was a huge waste of time and never had any time to do some clean up during the process. Now I can get most of my equipment cleaned up by the end of the boil. With 15 minutes of setup the night before and 1 hour of additional cleanup after yeast pitching (boil kettle, tubing, hauling spent grains to the compost pile, etc.), I’m still looking at over 4 1/2 hours for the entire process. I’m also no longer picking up heavy kettles of liquid either. My new system transfer all liquids by gravity or pump.
I’m not one to ever leave well enough alone though. I still see some inefficiencies in my process and plan on a few more minor design modifications. The focus will be on the cooler MT this time. I currently have 1 hole in the lid where I have a piece of tubing running through it for a temperature probe (thermocouple). I plan to have 2 more: 1 for transfer of strike and mash waters directly from the HLT to the cooler MT. The other will be hooked up to the pump tubing for wort circulation (vorlauf). Tubes have a tendency to flop out of vessels and therefore have to be observed. Securing them this way frees me up to do something else such as more cleaning, or maybe have that bowl of cereal
A bit off the subject, but I read something on a different forum a number of months ago and had to try it. Somebody have drilled holes in the edges of their cooler MT lid and filled it with foam sealant like Great Stuff to improved insulation and reduce heat loss. I went from losing at least 4 degrees during the 60 minute mash to just 1. This might not sound huge to anybody, but I like fuller bodied beers and tend to not mash below 154 degrees. So being able to start at a preferred temp and keeping it there is important to me. Besides, hotter wort in the kettle means less time to boil. Every little bit helps!
My next brew day I should be pretty much exactly half of my old brew days. Of course, it ran me a few bucks to get to this point, but when my brother bought me an Edelmetall Bru Burner for Christmas, I just had to get back into it in a big way. My first brew day of this year I didn’t have a HWT/HLT, just a half-baked MT, kettle, burner, and chiller. It was a near disaster the whole way, but I saw most of what needed addressing to streamline the process as much as possible with my situation. I could really use a grain mill, a pump, and a dedicated brew sculpture, but that will come with time. For now, it’s a little more work, but it works.
My HWT/HLT is a Rubbermaid cooler from Home Depot, 45 quart. Not very well insulated, but it doesn’t have to be, it’s just to hold my strike water long enough to batch sparge. For the time being, I just clamped a piece of tubing on the drain and used a ball valve for 1/2" PEX tubing.
My MT is a Coleman Extreme cooler from Wal-Mart, 72 quart. Seems to be holding the heat well, but I think I want to get it fitted with a temperature probe so I can monitor the mash temp. I unscrewed the drain (first batch I tried clamping tubing on the existing drain but it didn’t work out well), ran a stainless pipe nipple through the hole with a stainless coupler on the inside and a lead-free brass ball valve on the outside. All 1/2" tubing. Used a 3/4 PEX to male pipe thread connector to connect up the stainless braid. Worked out well. Thought about putting a hole in the lid to run the sparge water in, but I like to stir the mash around after adding the sparge water, so I don’t think it would make much difference.
With this setup, as soon as I was done with the HWT/HLT, I took it down, opened it and let it drip-dry. Soon as I was done draining the MT, I cranked up the burner and hauled the MT down to the compost pile. Took it back and cleaned it while the boil was going. By the end of the boil, I just had the chiller and kettle to clean. Since I had the hose out, I took care of that as soon as the wort was in the fermenter.
Maybe you could drive through the car wash to clean up. Looks like my old truck. 94 F250. My grandson nicknamed mine Big Blue. That was a good truck, a workhorse
lol, with the ladder rack and CB antenna, car washes are not my friend. Mine is a 95 F-150 with the 300 I-6 that I customized a bit. F-250 rear leaf packs that I rebuilt with extra leafs, heavy duty front coils with load assist shocks, ZF-5 trans out of an F-250 with a custom shifter, etc. Basically it’s a one ton F-150, lol. My work truck, I call it the Blue Ox. My playtoy is an 89 Bronco II with 7" total lift and 35’s. The red Ranger in the background was a father/son project, had a HO 5.0L, fuel injected, AWD. Awesome playtoy till someone ran a red light and totaled it for us. I also have an 88 Bronco II, 94 F-350, 00 Ranger and half of an 89 Ranger (parts truck).
and still having to make a standard copper chiller work takes time. I got to pitching temp In about 40 minutes.
