Glycol chiller and cooling jacket

GoBlue59 2020-09-11 23:21:25 UTC #1

Been thinking about building a DIY glycol chiller like those found online (cooler, pump, A/C unit). I want to use it to cut down on cool down time from boiling to pitching mainly, and run it through my IC. I've also been debating a cooling jacket for the outside of my kettle... Or for the outside of my fermenter maybe. I'd have to bring the wort down to like 90 degrees in the kettle with glycol through the IC, then transfer to fermenter with a cooling jacket. Or, run both an IC and a cooling jacket at the same time on the kettle. Cooling from boiling to pitching has always been, and continues to be, a pain in the butt for me no matter how many new ideas I try. I'd like to cut down on time and water used.

I know they make commercial ones, but curious if anyone has thought about making their own cooling jacket? In theory I could just wrap a LOT of tubing (silicone or metal) into a giant coil around the outside... But that seems a little inelegant. Any ideas on a good way to design or build one? Or just suck it up and buy the $70 jacket

damian_winter 2020-09-12 00:37:01 UTC #2

For summer time to cool my wort i use a aquarium pump and bucket of ice water and pump through my chiller. It works great and the pumps are cheap. I can cool wort down to pitching temps in five minutes or less.

GoBlue59 2020-09-12 01:13:37 UTC #3

That makes absolutely no sense to me. I use ice water through an IC using a sump pump, much higher flow rate than any aquarium pump. I then run the return through a second stage CFC in more ice water. All the while, I am recirculating my wort out and then back into my kettle.

All this and it takes me over 35 minutes. 5 gallons at 212 degrees F, using ice water which can't be lower than what? 35 degrees at best? That doesn't even make sense from a thermodynamics standpoint. It doesn't seem possible. How the hell does mine take so long?! I'm using the northern brewer silver serpent as my IC, can stainless really be that much worse than copper? Should I be removing the wort from the kettle to avoid residual heat from the SS walls? It may help to say I use an electric brewing setup, not propane... Could that play a role?

sneezles61 2020-09-12 01:40:43 UTC #4

Well, why not build/buy a counter flow chiller... Mines a parallel counter flow.... Put a valve on the output side to slow the wort... Our water is very cool up here year round..... So when I slow down the output... Temp is about 70*F...
Sneezles61

GoBlue59 2020-09-12 01:57:46 UTC #5

My tap water starts around 68, so obviously getting anything to 70 would take a long time.

I've always thought about a CFC, I'm just worried about hop clogging or sanitizing. I can't see what's inside, and that bugs the crap outta me. Just to keep my mind at ease, I prefer not sending my wort somewhere I'm afraid of cleaning.

Obviously once you're done using it, you flush it out with water and or sanitizer? But then how do you get that out so it doesn't sit inside a tube for possibly months and grow mold and bacteria? Or if you just say screw it, and sanitize it anew right before next use... How do you get THAT liquid to not mix with your wort? Is it low enough volume that it doesn't have an effect? Compressed air? I have so many questions

wilcolandzaat 2020-09-12 11:17:13 UTC #6

Same here. Easy to bring temp down. Takes me 4 bags of ice to chill the wort.

damian_winter 2020-09-12 13:27:47 UTC #7

Ok let's get scientific. Here is a site to help you understand better Thermodynamics of chilling wort. https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrJ61wXQVxfxTEAlNdx.9w4;_ylu=Y29sbwNiZjEEcG9zAzIEdnRpZAMEc2VjA3Ny/RV=2/RE=1599910295/RO=10/RU=http%3a%2f%2fbrewery.org%2flibrary%2fThermoCS0995.html/RK=2/RS=mlRsNIaJZpTp6ytpfiKTD9jbCpc-

sneezles61 2020-09-12 13:32:48 UTC #8

Look at building a parallel counter flow chiller.... 1/2" copper tubing... Encapsulated by 3/4".... To connect the 1/2" tubing, 1/2" silicone is used... It's actually a very smart way to do things... Albeit a bigger gizmo... The more "loops" the better the cooling...
It just takes some plotting and scheming to build.. I made mine from scrap stuff except for the 3/4"x3/4"X1/2" fittings...
Sneezles61

GoBlue59 2020-09-12 14:23:20 UTC #9

The math section in that article relating to time of cooling is for a counterflow chiller, not an immersion. He said 10 minutes but with exit temp/velocity of coolant and exit temp/velocity of beer.

Regardless I appreciate the link. For the love of God I still can't figure out why my method takes so damn long. I get that it's not instantaneous, but 35 minutes with a 2 stage ice bath IC and wort circulation inside the kettle... I'm at a loss.

GoBlue59 2020-09-12 14:25:10 UTC #10

But again... How do you clean it and dry it? I'm paranoid about leftover solids/leftover liquid inside, which then leads to bacteria or mold or both. The only advantage I have with an IC is that no beer enters the tubing so I don't have to worry too much about the internal liquid

GoBlue59 2020-09-12 14:27:45 UTC #11

Maybe I'm not using the right idea. I use big chunks of ice, and much less than 4 bags worth. I freeze two separate 2 gallon buckets the night before brewing. That way I have giant ice blocks ready to use.

I know the smaller the cubes, the quicker they melt... But even thinking about whiskey cubes... They're large cubes that still get the drink nice and cold.

Maybe I just need to use smaller cubes... Or say screw it and build this glycol thing cuz it'd be fun.

sneezles61 2020-09-12 15:22:03 UTC #12

I'll stick my neck in a noose here... You didn't look at that build up on you tube yet.... Once you do... I promise the wheels will be spinning... Then, you'll figure how to employ a plate chiller to chill the cooling water for a parallel counter flow chiller...
An old saying.. Look before you leap..
sneezles61
CHAOS counter flow chiller 2.0... Now I'll warn you, the camera work really bums my eyes out... But this is very close to my chiller... You can see the actual idea is sound... Just needs a bit of re-configuring to make it easier to use

GoBlue59 2020-09-12 15:59:24 UTC #13

That's a pretty impressive idea, I never would have thought about that configuration. I may have to teach myself how to solder pipes, but it could be done. I will see how it all goes, I already own an old A/C unit and a cooler, so I feel like I'm going to build a glycol chiller regardless. But sending that through a CFC would do the job immediately!

sneezles61 2020-09-12 16:48:50 UTC #14

Soldering isn't hard... you'll find vids...
The AC unit and chiller for a fermenter is the best...
Sneezles61

voodoo_donut 2020-09-12 20:52:15 UTC #15

damian_winter 2020-09-13 18:02:30 UTC #16

Yes it is for counter chiller, but the math still applies. 5 gallons of wort at 212 degree down to 68 needs to lose about 6300 kj of energy. That doesn't change regardless of what kind of chiller your using. If you under stand the Thermodynamics you can calculate.
1 the amount of cooper or stainless steel tubing needed.
2 how many kw of energy you need to chill your wort from 212 degrees to pitching temperature and time it will take. You should keep this in mind if you decide to create a glycol chiller. The math still applies making it too.

GoBlue59 2020-09-13 18:32:43 UTC #17

Oh I agree about the math being the same. I just meant the time would be different because of the heat exchange capability difference between the two varieties

That being said... 6300 KJ/5min =1260 KJ/min which equals 21kW. That's why I say 5 minutes is a little too fast for me to truly believe, right? Most window A/C units top off around 10,000 BTU which is around 3kW, I just can't fathon regular ice water (that is most likely being heated over time) being more than seven times cooling capability of a freon cooling unit? I DO believe you are getting the results, just not sure how...