No matter how much I pitched, I would never go below 53-54(and have gone as high at 58) on first pitch, with zero ill effects in flavor. Lag just kills me, I like my yeasties to chew though 12 gravity points a day. Its been years, since I pitched/fermented a lager colder than 53. It WILL work cold, just takes more time.
Quite and would ya know it, 29 hours post pitch, what I thought was activity in the airlock cannot be trusted, I opened the lid and nothing, no krausen, gravity hadn’t dropped. I pitched US-05. Eff it. It’s going now. Hope it still turns out okay…we’ll see.
Won’t be doing that again. Maybe I didn’t give it long enough, but I don’t like long lag times either.
Yea I think I found my limits as a lazy brewer. I don’t have the patience for 34/70 dry if this is indicative of it’s nature. Much prefer my big starters of 2206. I pitch them at 48-50 degrees and the party is full on in a few hours.
I’ll pitch the 34/70 slurry once and see how it goes. I’m happy with how my lager process has been working so unless this beer turns out to be absolutely amazing I don’t see changing my house lager yeast anytime soon.
Truth be told, I am a fan of a nice starter of a liquid strain as well( for me 830 and 940). I have just used 34/70 enough to know its do’s and do nots.
Yep, the first pitch of dry 34/70 is slow getting started at 50F. But, it will start and it will finish. I discovered many years ago that yeast require very little supervision. Pitch it (dry or rehydrated) and leave it alone; all those little yeasties will wake up hungry and do their jobs. I don’t know how long it takes to get started when sprinkled directly on the surface - I rarely check it until day 14.
The second pitch - 34/70 slurry - will take off like a rocket. I checked my most recent batch after four days because I was curious after reading complaints about it being slow; it went from 1.050 to 1.013 in four days at 50F (according to the fermometer).
I understand 34/70 does not accentuate malt character, but that’s easily fixed with a little more Munich and/or a higher mash temp. I’m sure there are other characteristics my untrained palate is missing, but it suits my (lazy) brewing style. YMMV
Wait till your repitch of 34/70. You will be happy.
Agreed, it is definitely better on repitch.
Hope this isn’t too off-topic on this thread, but we stressed 34/70 a bit (didn’t rehydrate, pitched 3 or maybe 4 sachets into a 14 gallon bo pils) and it threw off a bunch of red apple, which was really not good. Not green apple/acetaldehyde…but red…like apple juice- Ethyl hexanoate per my research.
However, I was wondering if I brewed a 5G ale/hybrid batch with this yeast, say a cal common, fermented at around 60 degrees, primarily to start growing up a big slug to brew a baltic on the 14 gallon system, would it throw off those ugly esters at that temp?
[quote=“Pietro”]Hope this isn’t too off-topic on this thread, but we stressed 34/70 a bit (didn’t rehydrate, pitched 3 or maybe 4 sachets into a 14 gallon bo pils) and it threw off a bunch of red apple, which was really not good. Not green apple/acetaldehyde…but red…like apple juice- Ethyl hexanoate per my research.
However, I was wondering if I brewed a 5G ale/hybrid batch with this yeast, say a cal common, fermented at around 60 degrees, primarily to start growing up a big slug to brew a baltic on the 14 gallon system, would it throw off those ugly esters at that temp?[/quote]
My experience with 34/70 is that it will not throw much off flavors at 60°. This yeast is a really good yeast. Once in my earlier brewing days I made a lager that developed diacetyl that wasn’t initially there before lagering. I tried bringing it back up to 68° for a d-rest but this didn’t work. As a final attempt to save it I pitched a sachet at 65° and to my surprise a week later the diacetyl was completely gone.
Was it the repitching or the time?
Repitch. The d-rest had been active for over a week at 68° with no change.
[quote=“Loopie Beer”][quote=“Pietro”]Hope this isn’t too off-topic on this thread, but we stressed 34/70 a bit (didn’t rehydrate, pitched 3 or maybe 4 sachets into a 14 gallon bo pils) and it threw off a bunch of red apple, which was really not good. Not green apple/acetaldehyde…but red…like apple juice- Ethyl hexanoate per my research.
However, I was wondering if I brewed a 5G ale/hybrid batch with this yeast, say a cal common, fermented at around 60 degrees, primarily to start growing up a big slug to brew a baltic on the 14 gallon system, would it throw off those ugly esters at that temp?[/quote]
My experience with 34/70 is that it will not throw much off flavors at 60°. This yeast is a really good yeast. Once in my earlier brewing days I made a lager that developed diacetyl that wasn’t initially there before lagering. I tried bringing it back up to 68° for a d-rest but this didn’t work. As a final attempt to save it I pitched a sachet at 65° and to my surprise a week later the diacetyl was completely gone.[/quote]
Wish I had thought of this. A while back I made a bock with 34/70 that turned into an absolute diacetyl bomb. Like you, it wasn’t there initially but then it came on like gangbusters while I was lagering. And more lagering didn’t help. And a LOT more lagering didn’t help either. I finally threw it out. One of my very few real failures in brewing… 
[quote=“Pietro”]Hope this isn’t too off-topic on this thread, but we stressed 34/70 a bit (didn’t rehydrate, pitched 3 or maybe 4 sachets into a 14 gallon bo pils) and it threw off a bunch of red apple, which was really not good. Not green apple/acetaldehyde…but red…like apple juice- Ethyl hexanoate per my research.
However, I was wondering if I brewed a 5G ale/hybrid batch with this yeast, say a cal common, fermented at around 60 degrees, primarily to start growing up a big slug to brew a baltic on the 14 gallon system, would it throw off those ugly esters at that temp?[/quote]
You know, I think I’ve gotten this flavor before but wasn’t sure what to think of it. Not sure if it comes from fermenting too warm or underpitching or what.
[quote=“Beersk”][quote=“Pietro”]Hope this isn’t too off-topic on this thread, but we stressed 34/70 a bit (didn’t rehydrate, pitched 3 or maybe 4 sachets into a 14 gallon bo pils) and it threw off a bunch of red apple, which was really not good. Not green apple/acetaldehyde…but red…like apple juice- Ethyl hexanoate per my research.
However, I was wondering if I brewed a 5G ale/hybrid batch with this yeast, say a cal common, fermented at around 60 degrees, primarily to start growing up a big slug to brew a baltic on the 14 gallon system, would it throw off those ugly esters at that temp?[/quote]
You know, I think I’ve gotten this flavor before but wasn’t sure what to think of it. Not sure if it comes from fermenting too warm or underpitching or what.[/quote]
We scratched our heads like crazy because we thought it was acetaldehyde. It definitely was more ‘apple juice’ than ‘sliced green apple’ so we settled on ethyl hexanoate. My understanding is that it comes from stressed yeast. I think this is what we did because we didn’t rehydrate, which I’ve heard kills about half of the viable cells (I believe it was 3 sachets). No way it was ferment temp in this case, we pitched and held the temp at 50* or so for the first week and half, then raised up into the 60’s for a d-rest for another few weeks.
Next time I’m repitching from slurry, 2nd-gen minimum for any lager.
[quote=“Pietro”][quote=“Beersk”][quote=“Pietro”]Hope this isn’t too off-topic on this thread, but we stressed 34/70 a bit (didn’t rehydrate, pitched 3 or maybe 4 sachets into a 14 gallon bo pils) and it threw off a bunch of red apple, which was really not good. Not green apple/acetaldehyde…but red…like apple juice- Ethyl hexanoate per my research.
However, I was wondering if I brewed a 5G ale/hybrid batch with this yeast, say a cal common, fermented at around 60 degrees, primarily to start growing up a big slug to brew a baltic on the 14 gallon system, would it throw off those ugly esters at that temp?[/quote]
You know, I think I’ve gotten this flavor before but wasn’t sure what to think of it. Not sure if it comes from fermenting too warm or underpitching or what.[/quote]
We scratched our heads like crazy because we thought it was acetaldehyde. It definitely was more ‘apple juice’ than ‘sliced green apple’ so we settled on ethyl hexanoate. My understanding is that it comes from stressed yeast. I think this is what we did because we didn’t rehydrate, which I’ve heard kills about half of the viable cells (I believe it was 3 sachets). No way it was ferment temp in this case, we pitched and held the temp at 50* or so for the first week and half, then raised up into the 60’s for a d-rest for another few weeks.
Next time I’m repitching from slurry, 2nd-gen minimum for any lager.[/quote]
Interesting, so you think this was stressed yeast, eh? I usually rehydrate my yeast. But I’m bad about getting the rehydrated yeast down to pitching temp before pitching it into cold wort.
Last week I bottled a helles bock made with S-189 that turned out great.
Last week I bottled a helles bock made with S-189 that turned out great.[/quote]
Been meaning to try that yeast. Wish it were more widely available.
Last week I bottled a helles bock made with S-189 that turned out great.[/quote]
Been meaning to try that yeast. Wish it were more widely available.[/quote]
The manufacturer is supposed to be making this available in home brew sizes some time soon.
In the meantime Atlantic brew supply repackages from the large bricks and has a USPS shipping option that wouldn’t cost a lot to get 2 or 3 packs.
Cool, I hope they do that soon. It’s always nice to have more dry options for when the weather is hot or cold.
[quote=“Rookie L A”]
Last week I bottled a helles bock made with S-189 that turned out great.[/quote]
Been meaning to try that yeast. Wish it were more widely available.[/quote]
The manufacturer is supposed to be making this available in home brew sizes some time soon.
In the meantime Atlantic brew supply repackages from the large bricks and has a USPS shipping option that wouldn’t cost a lot to get 2 or 3 packs.[/quote]
I got on their website to check and the USPS charge for 3 packs was $2.52.
