Hey all, I’m planning to brew a dunkel and do my first decoction. I want to keep it simple so would like to do a single decoction this go around. I’ve read about decoction mashouts, but those are usually done as a thin pull with mostly liquid. If I want the benefits of boiling the grains, could I just do a normal infusion (say 152F), then do a single thick pull and boil this prior to mashout. Any downside to this? Your suggestions are welcome. Thx.
Sure, that could work. However if you are at all interested in doing a “real” decoction, it really doesn’t have to be difficult or time consuming. You can do a couple of short 10-15 minute rests and barely add any time to your brew day. The following is very similar / almost identical to Kai Troester’s standard double decoction method, with minor tweaks to keep things moving quickly.
Dave’s Double Decoction Method:
- Calculate the strike water volume using about 1.5 to 1.75 qts/lb – maximum for small beers, minimum for bigger beers.
- Treat the whole strike water volume with salts as usual if required, then bring 1/3 of the strike water to a boil.
- Meanwhile, use the other 2/3 of the strike volume to moisten the crushed grains cold at room temperature.
- Add the boiled volume into the moistened grains. Resultant temperature should be 95 to 105 F.
- Immediately pull 2/3 of the thick mash using a colander, and add heat to hit 154 F for 15 minutes.
- Add 2 qt water per 5-gallon batch size, then bring to boil for 15 to 40 minutes – maximum for dark beers, minimum for light.
- Add first decoction back into the main mash and rest at average >=148 F for 15 minutes.
8 ) Pull 1/3 of thin mash and bring to a boil. - Immediately upon boiling, add the second decoction back into the main mash. Resultant temperature should be close to 170 F for mashout.
- Pour into a mash tun or grain bag (i.e., separate your grain material from your wort), sparge if appropriate, and continue as normal.
:cheers:
[quote=“dmtaylo2”]Sure, that could work. However if you are at all interested in doing a “real” decoction, it really doesn’t have to be difficult or time consuming. You can do a couple of short 10-15 minute rests and barely add any time to your brew day. The following is very similar / almost identical to Kai Troester’s standard double decoction method, with minor tweaks to keep things moving quickly.
Dave’s Double Decoction Method:
- Calculate the strike water volume using about 1.5 to 1.75 qts/lb – maximum for small beers, minimum for bigger beers.
- Treat the whole strike water volume with salts as usual if required, then bring 1/3 of the strike water to a boil.
- Meanwhile, use the other 2/3 of the strike volume to moisten the crushed grains cold at room temperature.
- Add the boiled volume into the moistened grains. Resultant temperature should be 95 to 105 F.
- Immediately pull 2/3 of the thick mash using a colander, and add heat to hit 154 F for 15 minutes.
- Add 2 qt water per 5-gallon batch size, then bring to boil for 15 to 40 minutes – maximum for dark beers, minimum for light.
- Add first decoction back into the main mash and rest at average >=148 F for 15 minutes.
8 ) Pull 1/3 of thin mash and bring to a boil. - Immediately upon boiling, add the second decoction back into the main mash. Resultant temperature should be close to 170 F for mashout.
- Pour into a mash tun or grain bag (i.e., separate your grain material from your wort), sparge if appropriate, and continue as normal.
:cheers: [/quote]
+1. This sounds time consuming while it’s being read, but it really doesn’t take a whole lot of extra time at all.
[quote=“dmtaylo2”]Sure, that could work. However if you are at all interested in doing a “real” decoction, it really doesn’t have to be difficult or time consuming. You can do a couple of short 10-15 minute rests and barely add any time to your brew day. The following is very similar / almost identical to Kai Troester’s standard double decoction method, with minor tweaks to keep things moving quickly.
Dave’s Double Decoction Method:
- Calculate the strike water volume using about 1.5 to 1.75 qts/lb – maximum for small beers, minimum for bigger beers.
- Treat the whole strike water volume with salts as usual if required, then bring 1/3 of the strike water to a boil.
- Meanwhile, use the other 2/3 of the strike volume to moisten the crushed grains cold at room temperature.
- Add the boiled volume into the moistened grains. Resultant temperature should be 95 to 105 F.
- Immediately pull 2/3 of the thick mash using a colander, and add heat to hit 154 F for 15 minutes.
- Add 2 qt water per 5-gallon batch size, then bring to boil for 15 to 40 minutes – maximum for dark beers, minimum for light.
- Add first decoction back into the main mash and rest at average >=148 F for 15 minutes.
8 ) Pull 1/3 of thin mash and bring to a boil. - Immediately upon boiling, add the second decoction back into the main mash. Resultant temperature should be close to 170 F for mashout.
- Pour into a mash tun or grain bag (i.e., separate your grain material from your wort), sparge if appropriate, and continue as normal.
:cheers: [/quote]
Dave, in step 5 you’re raising your thick mash temp to 154 prior to adding a couple quarts of water and bringing to boil with step 6?
Danny, it doesn’t really matter much. I suppose ideally the 2 extra quarts would be either boiling or 154 F, but it won’t kill anything if you use cold water either.
Right. I was just trying to confirm my understanding of the process. Step 5 is to raise the thick mash to 154 and rest for 15 prior to boiling, right?
Meanwhile the thin mash is chilling from the strike temp until the decoction gets added back in step 7 correct?
What is the benefit of a decoction mash for the home brewer?
[quote=“dannyboy58”]Right. I was just trying to confirm my understanding of the process. Step 5 is to raise the thick mash to 154 and rest for 15 prior to boiling, right?
Meanwhile the thin mash is chilling from the strike temp until the decoction gets added back in step 7 correct?[/quote]
Yep, yep, you’ve got it.
Decoction is useful for education and experimentation. Learn how they used to brew in the old days, before malts were so well modified. You most likely will not be able to taste any differences in the final beer, so for the purposes of flavor enhancement, you’d kind of be wasting your time. But it’s just one of those things that’s kind of fun, and it’s really not all that difficult. To anyone curious, I do encourage you to give it a try sometime, just for the fun of it if nothing else.
Thanks for that last bit Dave, I tried more than a few times and wondered why I wasn’t getting that same great German flavor in the lagers I was making. Finally just gave up.
There have been a lot of online discussions recently regarding “that German flavor”. Personally I think it comes from a magical combination of fresh authentic German malts, noble hops, and a good 6-12 months of aging. The water might also have something special to do with it. German malts and aging are the key things though as far as I can tell. Decoction fortunately seems to have nothing to do with it. If it did, then I’d be decocting every single batch!!!
Great discussion. Dave, appreciate the insight on utility of decoction. Like I said, I want to try it but not overly complicate things, particularly given the equivocal contribution to flavor in the end product. Thx.
I agree, a good discussion, and Dave does a very good job of laying out the method, benefits and limits of the technique. But he misses one benefit, which is the main reason I still occasionally do decoctions: it is the easiest way for me to step up temperature in my mash with my equipment.
I don’t do step mashes very often, but when I do it is easier to pull a decoction than it is to keep adding ever-increasing volumes of boiling water to achieve the steps.
You beat me to it rebuilt. My mashtun is 5G and I’m too cheap to get a bigger one. With most of my mashes, I’m filled right to the top. So if I want to do a multistep, I take 3qts. of a thick mash, hold it at my next step for 15 minutes before bringing it to a boil and adding it back.
Actually, there is one more benefit to using a decoction, and this is the reason the method was invented in thr first place: it allows you to hit temperature targets exactly and repeatedly without using a thermometer. Thermometers were only invented a few hundred years ago, but buckets (the only measuring tool needed to do a decoction) go way back. And until fairly recently, step mashes were needed to get good results from the malts available.
I’ve toyed with the idea of doing a decoction for fun. One question, do you actually boil the grains husks and all or do you strain it and only boil liquid?
The grain husks will be in the decoction volume, so you boil the whole maltmeal :mrgreen:
There is a study out there somewhere if you search around on google that is pretty well-executed (as far as the scientific method), and concludes that the same effect is achieved by using a percentage of melanoidin malt.
That said, I still do it sometimes when doing step mashes (like for my wit) or a mash out, its really kind of fun and smells great!
One more thing to remember about decoctions: it will change your mash efficiency, making it higher. Some might consider that to be a benefit, but if you aren’t expecting it, it can throw off your calcs.
The higher your efficiency normally is, the less effect the decoction will have in that regard.
Nope, you boil the grain, husks and all. The reason you can do that when you’ve always been told to keep husks out of the kettle is because the mash pH is low enough that you won’t extract objectionable tannins.
Nope, you boil the grain, husks and all. The reason you can do that when you’ve always been told to keep husks out of the kettle is because the mash pH is low enough that you won’t extract objectionable tannins.[/quote]
Is the ph of the thick mash that you pull lower than a standard mash? Or is boiling the thick mash lower the ph? Am I missing something? how does the ph all of a sudden come into a range that won’t extract tannins?
Nope, you boil the grain, husks and all. The reason you can do that when you’ve always been told to keep husks out of the kettle is because the mash pH is low enough that you won’t extract objectionable tannins.[/quote]
Is the ph of the thick mash that you pull lower than a standard mash? Or is boiling the thick mash lower the ph? Am I missing something? how does the ph all of a sudden come into a range that won’t extract tannins?[/quote]
You need to make sure your mash pH is low enough to begin with, which would generally be in the 5.2-5.4 range with acid additions if/as needed. That way you won’t get the tannin extraction, which usually occurs at, I believe, somewhere around a pH of 6.0 or so, and above 170 degrees F. If you control the mash pH, the temperature isn’t much of an issue.
