Dark malts, steeped not mashed

I’ve read that Gordon Strong believes that it’s better to leave dark grains out of the mash and do a separate steep with them and add that back in later in the boil. I like the idea of reducing harshness since I’m much more a malt “head” than a hop “head”, but it does raise questions that maybe somebody can help me with. If you leave the dark grains out of the mash, wouldn’t that affect the pH of the mash water? If so, would you have to try to lower the pH accordingly since the dark grains wouldn’t bring the mash pH down? (Specifically, how would I handle that on Brew Smith 3?). Also, how does separate steeping affect the OG? I’m guessing (but I’m not very knowledgeable about these things yet) that your OG would be reduced a bit. So in looking over your recipe, would you then have to take a lower OG into account for the resulting wort? Sorry for the dumb questions, but I couldn’t find anything in Gordon’s book about these issues. Maybe he did address them, but I could have missed it.

A second topic – does anyone have any experience with electric mash tuns? I’m very interested since I could then do multiple steps as recommended for more authentic Belgian ales and, if I go that direction, for better results with Pilsner malts. For $400 - $500, it seems like a very good investment if it performs as advertised. I think I’d still boil with my gas burner, but really like the idea of a recirculating pump to increase mash temps.

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First things first… Dark malts are acidic… They usually don’t bring any sugars… well, because they are burnt… Flavor wise… you are on track… Take notes… pay attention to gravity post mash… That will help lead you to whats going on…
I’m all electric… BIABasket… I’ve not realized any contribution from the lower temps… flavor or otherwise… HOWEVER… I do alot of Beta rests… 142F then up to Alpha rests 158F… my fermenting’s end up a bit lower…
Dry? No… but I do employ them…
Gordon is a wise brewer… I’ll bet somewhere he gives you the answer… Hide and go seek! :slight_smile:
Sneezles61

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First- ‘harshness’ from darker grains is TOTALLY different than hop bitterness. Darker grains provide a pan acrid, burnt, bitterness.
Second- you are correct in that leaving the dark grains out will affect pH. As @sneezles61 said darker grains lower mash pH. So if you use a spreadsheet just leave them out when you figure your water profile.
Third- darker grains aren’t going to ‘convert’ to provide sugar. Their sugars are already converted so steeping them is the same as mashing them.
Fourth- you only need to do this based on what you want and your results with your grain bill. I’ve developed a RIS for our brewery that doesn’t steep darker grains and has no acrid burnt bitterness. It’s really is trial and error.
In regards to your ‘electric’ mash tun. The ONLY electric mash tun that I’m aware of is the ‘all in one systems’. If you heat your mash tun, either with direct fire or electric, you risk scorching your mash. So even the ‘all in one’ systems separate an element from the mash.

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Yes, I probably got the terminology wrong, but I plan to used the Klarstein to do mashes and will boil in my kettle with a propane burner, so for me, it’s essentially an electric mash tun. The thing I’m really looking forward to is being able to step mash since I use a lot of Belgian Pilsner and my sense is that it requires a step mash more than most Pilsners since it isn’t as modified. I got the system with a recirculating pump which should make things much easier.

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Regarding separately steeping your dark grains, I have three tips here in my notes from Dr. George Fix:
“1) One gallon of water per 3-4 lbs. of grains to be steeped is brought to a boil and held there for 5 mins.
2) The water is cooled down to ambient, and the cracked grains are added.
3) This mixture is left for 12-16 hrs. at ambient temperatures, and then added to the brew kettle for the last 15-20 mins. of the boil.”
It also says to use 2-3 times the amount of dark grains you would normally use in a conventional mash. I’ve used this method a few times with success. Cheers!

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Interesting approach I’d not heard about. Any idea why boiled water is needed? Also, if you’re talking about just a few ounces, do you use the same proportion? Finally, is the larger proportion of dark grains because the ambient temp water doesn’t extract as much as boiling water? Sorry for all the questions, I’m in the research phase of getting back into brewing and I’m always trying to understand the dynamics going on behind the protocols. Thanks for the helpful advice!!

Boiling first is just for sterilization purposes. Yes to proportion question.

I am a partial mash guy so for a five gallon batch I mash about 3 pounds of grains that need conversion. After that water is added and I steep the specialty grains. This method does work out well and I get great results. Not exactly the same as when doing an all grain but the steeping of the specialty grains is the same. However, I just do that steeping with the already converted wort, some added water, and before going to a boil. So I do a 90 minute mash of those 3 pounds of grain, then I add some water and bring the temperature back up to about 150 and then steep the specialty grains using a mylon bag. After that the specialty grains are removed and I add more water and then anything like malt extract and any other sugars…

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