Cider ferment stuck - fresh pressed juice

Cider
1

I’m hoping someone can help. This is the toughest one I’ve ever struggled with. And with the best apple juice I’ve ever had in my life - and if I could save those 5 gallons back to juice now, I would. :frowning: Here’s the timeline–

Last week Friday (9/18) I pressed 5 gallons of apple juice with the family - 4 types of apples. (OG - 1.042) Had campden tablets in it on Saturday morning. Pitched S-04 Sunday night. Monday nothing, Tuesday nothing. Wednesday morning, still nothing was happening. No bubbles, no airlock movement, no SG change. Maybe the campden hadn’t gotten all out of there, maybe my yeast was bad.

Wednesday afternoon - picked up a new package of S-04 from a different store. Whipped the heck out of the must. Rehydrated the yeast instead of sprinkling it - brought it within 2 degrees F of the must. (69*F), then gently poured the creamy live yeasties in, thinking this will for sure take off - the must already had yeast nutrient and energizer added. I had big expectations for morning…

Thursday morning it was still. I gently stirred. Thursday night the airlock had moved (and my heart jumped!), but wasn’t bubbling. There was a silver dollar size spot of foam in the primary. I checked SG to ensure I didn’t have a leak - still at 1.042. Gently stirred, the foam just dissipated, no fizzies or anything. I re-covered.

Friday morning - no airlock movement, really thin mottled foam over the surface but otherwise still. Carried the primary upstairs, hoping a couple degrees might help. It’s at about 72-73 now. I’m thinking maybe the sloshing did something, because late in the afternoon the airlock was moving - a bubble about every 90 seconds. Not much, but something! Unfortunately, by 9 pm it stopped. I looked before bed, and it looked just like before - thin mottled foam but still. I stirred, re-covered and left it.

Saturday morning (this morning) - no activity overnight again. Airlock hadn’t even raised. I didn’t open it, just sloshed it a little. Mid-afternoon the airlock had moved again. A bubble every 2 minutes or so (not fun to watch), but I left with hope in my heart.

7 pm - no more activity. It’s as still as can be in the primary. SG hasn’t moved from OG.

I’m stumped. No idea what to do. Everything has been sanitized every step of the way. I don’t know if my juice can be recovered at this point, and I have no idea how to get it moving. I’ve never had a beer or wine behave like this before.

Any help would be sincerely appreciated.

G

2

Don’t know if I can help, but there are some things you can look at.

How much campden did you add? 1 tablet per gallon is the most you should consider adding pre-fermentation, and I’ll usually use only half that much. But unless you added a TON, I don’t think that’s your problem. The heavy aeration you did before pitching the second yeast pack should have caused any free sulfites to bind up and thus neutralized them.

What is the pH of the juice? Very unlikely this is an issue, but if it is very low (< 3.2) it could be a factor.

Any chance the apples were sprayed less than two weeks before they were picked? Fungicides are very effective yeast-killers.

3

If the og hasn’t changed rack some off to drink as juice if you want. Then continue to play with a few gallons. You might try making a big starter with store bought juice and toss it in st high krausen.

4

I read the yeast thread, and am really bummed. I went up to a new home brew store since mine closed. The guy told me to use SEVEN campden tablets! (Because mine are a couple years old). Trees haven’t been sprayed since flower drop.

I used the must to rehydrate the new yeast last weds, but the yeast had obvious advantage over the 3/4 cup of must, so I guess that would be why it rehydrated fine within an hour, but crapped out when added back to five gallons. :frowning: I hate to even tell the family I ruined 5 gallons, they were interested in trying this… I think this was the best batch I’ve ever had. They only gave me 3 extra bottles to drink, well, since I already put 5 in my brew bucket.

So frustrated and bummed. Is there any chance for recovery? Or am I just SOL? :frowning:

5

There is still hope. Check the pH. I’ll be surprised if you find a problem there, but if there is then it has to get fixed before anything will work. Try to aerate the juice again, that will bind up any sulfite that is still free. Then buy some wine yeast, which unlike beer yeast is highly resistant to sulfites. A lot of people use Cote du Blanc, which will make a good cider, but I’d recommend EC-1118. I did a batch of cider last year that I split fermented with the two yeasts, and after it was fully fermented and had time to age a couple months, the two were indistinguishable. But EC-1118 is a beast of a yeast strain. It will ferment through anything.

Rehydrate in 100F water (not must) at a rate of 10 ml for every 1 g of yeast for 15-30 minutes (no more) before pitching it into the juice. One 5 g pack of yeast is in theory enough for 5 gallons, but it wouldn’t hurt to use two, just in case.

6

^^^^^ What Rebuilt said. Find some wine yeast at this point. EC-1118 eats everything so is probably your best bet to get it going. It will finish bone dry, but give it some time in secondary or the bottle, and you’ll have a fantastic, crisp, dry cider.

7

pH is about 4.2/4.3 (hard to read those dumb strips)

Darnit. I was really hoping for a sweeter cider, but I guess it’s better than losing it. I can order some EC-1118 to pick up tomorrow. I have 71B-1122, Pasteur Champagne, Cote des Blancs, and Montachet here.

Do you think it was the campden that made it go wrong with the s-04?

Thanks much

8

Check the gravity. I’ll bet you it’s lower than 1.042 by now, and if so, it’s just fine. Patience! Wouldn’t hurt to add more yeast if it’s not much lower than that right now.

9

If pH is 4.2 or 4.3, that’s not the problem.

Hard to know why it hasn’t fermented. Campden is possibly the reason, though with all that aeration I’d have thought things OK. If it was campden, the wine yeast should get you going. I suspect any of the strains you have on hand would be fine, but I’ve had such good luck with EC-1118 working in adverse conditions that I would still think it should be used.

Only other possibilities that come to mind would be that the nutrients or energizer were actually something else, or that you got two packages of dead dry yeast - all very remote possibilities.

When you pressed the juice, you didn’t add ascorbic acid to it, did you? The local pressers here add it automatically unless you tell them not too.

10

I am doing my first attempt at cider and used only one tablet per gallon. I pitched my yeast after 30 hrs and if took off fairly quickly. Next time I think I’ll just pitch it with the wild or heat it. I was nervous about using it,now I’m more nervous. I wish you well, I hope your cider comes out good.

11

No activity again. I’ll get some wine yeast. Better fermented dry than spoiled. Maybe I can find a recipe with store apple juice that uses the s-04. Something more controlled. I’ve never done that because it just seems weird when we have the big family apple juice days in the fall.

Nothing was added to the juice. We were putting our mugs right under the juice hole, you know, to stay hydrated! We ran it into pitchers to pour into my bucket, but otherwise we save juice bottles all year to reuse. Then they go in the freezer.

I bought the yeast from 2 different stores, and my nutrient and energizer have been used with wine already :frowning: . The energizer I bought 5 years ago when a us-05 apple juice stuck partway through. It restarted, but I ended up dumping it in April the next year, it was yuck. I only have 2 bags of stuff - yeast nutrient and acid blend. Just checked, and the acid is still tucked away in the drawer. I have crummy luck I guess. This was about half honeycrisps from my tree, which I never sprayed this year, and 3 other kinds of apples that hadn’t been sprayed since flower drop.

I can see maybe why the first yeast didn’t take, if I overdid the campden because the guy said since it was a few years old I should use more. (I took a break when I filled up my bottle area with pear cider and wine). But 3 days later and vigorous stirring - I would think that campden would be inactive.

I wish you well, Brew Cat, hope yours keeps going. Mine never even started. What yeast did you choose?

The must tastes nothing like the juice in my fridge anymore. It doesn’t taste bad. Is that just the yeast and nutrient and sitting for over a week in there? It’s yellow in a glass, not brown. I won’t be driving an hour one way for “expert” advice anymore. There’s a mail order place 20 minutes from here that allows local pickup. I’ll just get my advice here. I guess I’ll hop in my car and drive 40 minutes for a dollar packet of yeast LOL. Thank you so much for your help.

12

Cote des Blancs is my favorite wine yeast to use in cider. Hasn’t failed me yet!

13

Since you already have some wine yeast, I’d go with the Cote des Blancs or 71B. 71B can metabolize malic acid, so it would make an interesting cider if you’re not looking for something quite as acidic. Just make sure you rack it off the lees once it starts clearing. Good luck!

14

Hi guys, I racked into a new bucket this afternoon. Don’t ask how that procedure went :mrgreen: but I got the sludge out of the bottom now. Hope that helps with something.

I re-hydrated the Cote des Blancs. It was expired yeast (it all is), so I know I’m still at a disadvantage, but I got it to rehydrate in 100* water, then added 1/8 cup of must to it every half hour or so and it kept growing. After a few hours it was fizzy and made me happy, so I sent it to the must at 5pm. I hope it’s enough to kick it in.

15

[quote=“limetwist”]Hi guys, I racked into a new bucket this afternoon. Don’t ask how that procedure went :mrgreen: but I got the sludge out of the bottom now. Hope that helps with something.

I re-hydrated the Cote des Blancs. It was expired yeast (it all is), so I know I’m still at a disadvantage, but I got it to rehydrate in 100* water, then added 1/8 cup of must to it every half hour or so and it kept growing. After a few hours it was fizzy and made me happy, so I sent it to the must at 5pm. I hope it’s enough to kick it in.[/quote]
I’ve done the rehydrate then grow a big starter before too. If that doesn’t work, nothing will.

16

Love the sound of effervescence in the morning :slight_smile:

I hope it doesn’t go toooooo dry. Guess I’ll save the corn sugar to attempt a sweet sparkling ale ferment at a different time. Just glad this is taking off and hopefully turns out. Thanks a TON for all of your help!!

17

Congrats at getting it going. Keep an eye on it. If the cider was this difficult to start, it might be difficult to keep it going till it is done. If it stalls, then that is a good indication that there was some sort of serious preservative-like chemical present. If that happens, rack to a new fermenter (leaving the trub behind) and pitch fresh yeast using the same process you just did.

18

Congrats! In all reality, you were going to have a dry cider even with the ale yeast. The simple sugars in apple juice will pretty much ferment out unless you do something to stall it.

If you do want a sweet sparking cider and can’t keg it, you’ll either need to look into bottle pasteurizing (which can be risky) or back-sweeten with a non-fermentable sugar like xylitol and prime with sugar. I’ve never pasteurized, but I think xylitol works great!

19

[quote=“porkchop”]Congrats! In all reality, you were going to have a dry cider even with the ale yeast. The simple sugars in apple juice will pretty much ferment out unless you do something to stall it.

If you do want a sweet sparking cider and can’t keg it, you’ll either need to look into bottle pasteurizing (which can be risky) or back-sweeten with a non-fermentable sugar like xylitol and prime with sugar. I’ve never pasteurized, but I think xylitol works great![/quote]

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Hi PC, why does this not surprise me… I wish my old local brew store hadn’t closed. This was the groovy advice the other place about an hour away which shall remain nameless gave me:

For sweet or off-dry sparkling cider
SG on my pressed juice was 1.042. Add no sugar or you’ll lose the apple bite.
Use SEVEN campden tablets. Wait 24. I waited 36… I maybe should’ve waited a week!
Add 1/2 tsp yeast energizer and 2 tsp nutrient. (those numbers seemed odd to me)
Pitch the dry S-04 on top.

Leave for a week in the primary. Rack to carboy. Leave for another week. When SG stays the same for 2 days, rack to brew bucket and bottle with one level tsp corn sugar per bottle, and cap.

Is there any decent advice here? It wasn’t a big sale for him, only bought sugar, bottle caps, and yeast. He seemed really confident that we’d get a 1.010 or 1.005 FG and it would be awesome.

Porkchop - are you in the U.P.? I see dmtaylo2 is in T’rivers. :slight_smile:

Thank you ALL so much for helping me through this.

I already have an itch to go buy some more fresh juice to try with the ale yeast… I have enough equipment for a 3 gallon batch. (probably a 5-gal if I do some juggling). They want $6 or $7 per gallon of fresh pressed juice at the orchards here though, all heat pasteurized. The fam’s apples are exhausted, so no one will be firing the press up again.

20

The shop’s advice is actually all pretty reasonable. Just be patient with it now and it should turn out great. It will ferment very dry but you can try to ward this off by racking often (about once a week) and hitting with gelatin as soon as specific gravity hits 1.010. Then rack again and keep it ice cold. Carbonation is a crapshoot – it is easier to just drink it flat.