Black Lager Adjuncts

pscdouglas 2012-01-26 00:48:30 UTC #1

Long time lurker, only have about a dozen brews under my belt. Had a question about my next extract kit. I am looking for advice from anyone who has brewed a black lager that they have tweaked with one adjunct or another for flavor. I'm a serious hop head so obviously I would love to do a serious dry hopping, but am open to other "flavors."

Also, on a different note, I am looking for rhizomes for Saaz or Spalt but have been unable to source them. Anyone know if they are available ANYWHERE or are they proprietary.

Thanks in advance!

brewmu 2012-01-26 01:13:45 UTC #2

Sorry I can only answer your last question - Saaz and Spalter have been around way, way, too long to be propietary. What kind of beer is this going to be?

pscdouglas 2012-01-26 01:35:05 UTC #3

It is just another brewers best kit, but I always try something a little different to experiment. I was thinking of adding some molasses to give it a sweet edge like a Schwarzbier, but I have no idea how much. I also have some wild harvested sarsaparilla root, but i think it would just muddy the flavor so I'll save it for some root beer.

Re: rhizomes- I wonder if there are any members that have sourced these internationally? maybe they are easier to come by across the pond.

pscdouglas 2012-02-11 22:44:30 UTC #4

well, I chickened out of doing anything crazy with this brew, except boosting the grav with some extra dme. The math yields an ABV of 5.51 about 1% over what the extract kit would normally produce. I've transferred into a corny keg to secondary/lager in my keggerator for a few weeks. My question now is this: My cheap dorm fridge find has a less than ideal thermostat. The warmest it goes on the dail is 39f. So unless I wanted to babysit the outlet and plug/unplug the darn thing, this lagering process starts quite abruptly. I did it. I admit it. I went directly from 58f to 39f. anyone else ever had to crash a lager like this? I'll wager it will be fine, but wondering if anyone else ever had done this before.

stormybrew 2012-02-12 18:05:42 UTC #5

It should be fine. Besides, it's not like the change was instantaneous. Probably still took close to 24 hours to stabilize near 39 from 58.

cheers.

rookie_l_a 2012-02-14 00:17:58 UTC #6

A couple of years ago I took the grain bill from my schwarz beer and combined it with the hop schedule and yeast from my czech pils. It turned out pretty good.
I think those rhizomes are available. If you can find a sterling you can use that in place of saaz, they are fairly close and grow better in the U S.

sneezles61 2021-02-10 14:35:56 UTC #7

Lets breathe life back into this... Our host got my attention just recently..
I'm thinking next week is a good time to start a Lager series... So brewing this style, are we NOT wanting any flavor from the darkness? Whats your take?
Sneezles61

voodoo_donut 2021-02-10 15:51:30 UTC #8

Some additional information on this style.

https://beerandbrewing.com/make-your-best-schwarzbier

Interested in brewing this sometime soon, although I would probably be drinking a keg of this myself, so I better make something I really like (my inner circle/covid pod/ of friends/wife/ neighbors would likely not gravitate to a dark roasty beer that screams homebrew, lol)

Stout is not my jam, so there's that. So a clean lager profile is preferred.

sneezles61 2021-02-10 16:31:45 UTC #9

OK... seems like its a very small stout with Lager rather than Ale.. I've not played with Carafa style malts... Its a de-bittered style malt... No matter what I do, using a dark malt will bring in the heaviness...
hhhmmmm... more plotting and scheming. Simple, small Lager and just a very small amount of very dark malt... Even a chocolate would avoid the bitter side..?
Sneezles61

voodoo_donut 2021-02-10 16:57:10 UTC #10

And our old friend Midnight Wheat.

sneezles61 2021-02-10 18:19:18 UTC #11

I do have some... An oz enough? Perhaps as a starting point...?
Sneezles61

voodoo_donut 2021-02-10 18:27:11 UTC #12

1/4 lb gave my bock a SRM of 20. I would say 1/2 lb would get you @ SRM of 40..... so perhaps 10 oz would be a good black bier.(5 gallon batch of course)
https://www.twobeerdudes.com/index.php/beer/srm/

sneezles61 2021-02-10 18:38:12 UTC #13

I'm thinking I went down that road... It would be too much... hide the Pils side of this brew...
I will use the chocolate wheat regardless... I do have a bit more to use up...
Sneezles61

voodoo_donut 2021-02-10 18:46:15 UTC #14

Understood, I remember that. Interestingly the BJCP guideliines have the SRM for Schwarzbier as 17-30! 17 is decidedly not black....so there is room for interpretation. Midnight Wheat is nice because I haven't detected any flavors from it, just color. So an SRM of 30 might be a good middle ground.....six ounces. Thinking out loud.

sneezles61 2021-02-11 02:32:31 UTC #15

About 5% ABV is a decent road to drive on... I'll suppose, keep it simple...
50/50 Pils and Wheat...
Next?
Sneezles61
EDIT: scratch the wheat... 80% Pils 20%Vienna.. Color with Midnight Wheat... 2 oz..

voodoo_donut 2021-02-11 16:07:32 UTC #16

Agreed. The bock I have in the fermenter currently is close to a Doppelbock, with an expected ABV of 7.3%....thinking I'd like this one to be @ 5% or even a little less....just to have something a little crushable(but with enough body and character to not be a "session beer", not a fan).

https://www.brewersfriend.com/srm-calculator

Nice tool to calculate your SRM as you plot your beer...with 2 ounces you'e coming in around SRM of 10-11.

sneezles61 2021-02-11 20:30:21 UTC #17

That is fun to play with... But it didn't have a place to say I would drink it out of a black stein!
It doesn't appear to get even close to "black" with even 4 oz... I'll get some de-bittered black malt...
Too much happening today to dive in deep... Tomorrow I'll get my grainbill together... American-ize it and up the hops? Williamette even?
Sneezles61
EDIT: I have CHOCOLATE wheat... not midnight...

voodoo_donut 2021-02-12 15:14:15 UTC #18

Chocolate wheat and Midnight wheat are similar.....I think the chocolate wheat may have a bit more flavor contribution than midnight(which is almost none in my experience). Another good discussion of the dark malt/wheat products below.
I know I've had good results in the past with the dehusked Carafa Special products II and III, I think @dannyboy58 uses them...good color without the roast.
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=21332.0/

dannyboy58 2021-02-12 15:48:12 UTC #19

I do definitely prefer the carafa SPECIAL over midnight wheat. The schwarzbier I brewed with midnight wheat seems to have more roast and chocolate than I prefer or have had in the past. it's a busier recipe than I like so i can't blame it entirely on the MW so I won't use the recipe again anyway.

I really think the NB black lager looks like a good starting point for this style. It's essentially a darkened pils which is what I feel the style really should be. My last one was more like a "stout lager".

voodoo_donut 2021-02-12 22:11:24 UTC #20

Yeah, I hear ya, “stout-lager”.....not really a thing.