[quote=“Shadetree”]I’m not aware of a way for higher pH sparge to cause a high FG[/quote]I had read that yeast grow best at a ph between 4 and 6, our water is moderately hard so I’m wondering if by not treating my sparge water it’s raising the pre boil ph. I got the meter dialed in so I’ll see what’s happening tomorrow.
I find that even when I (batch) sparge with 100% RO water, the pH will rise significantly unless I treat the sparge water with a bit of phosphoric acid.
I find that even when I (batch) sparge with 100% RO water, the pH will rise significantly unless I treat the sparge water with a bit of phosphoric acid.[/quote]
RO water has so little alkalinity, that it shouldn’t require any acidification. And even if you do add acid, it should be a teeny amount to drop the pH. Are you sure the RO is as pure as it should be? Is there a TDS reading on the RO water? A malfunctioning RO machine is going to have elevated alkalinity. Unless you have a TDS meter and test the water, you would never know that the machine wasn’t working correctly.
I buy my RO water from Ralph’s (west coast version of Kroger) already in jugs so I don’t think it comes from a single machine, though I could be wrong.
A quarter teaspoon of 10% phosphoric is all I am adding to 3.7 gallons of sparge water.
Just finishing up brewing, looks like I’m good on the ph front. Mash ph was 5.23, pre boil was 5.38 and post boil was 5.24. I guess I’ll have to look elsewhere as to why I’m having some beers finishing high.
I buy my RO water from Ralph’s (west coast version of Kroger) already in jugs so I don’t think it comes from a single machine, though I could be wrong.
A quarter teaspoon of 10% phosphoric is all I am adding to 3.7 gallons of sparge water.[/quote]
I used bulk RO water from my local grocery store for YEARS before deciding to send a sample to Ward Labs (there is a recent thread around here about my findings)… bottom line was that this RO water had elevated levels of TDS and a bicarbonate number of 50ppm. I was using that water to dilute my tap water and wasn’t seeing a lot of improvement in my pale beers and it was very frustrating. It occurs to me that it would be easy for “RO” water producers to have a inferior product and consumers wouldn’t know because they just assume it’s good or they won’t spend the time to check. Bottom line… if you don’t know what’s in it, you don’t know what’s in it.
To me it’s distilled only after Ken’s expose’ on the RO industry.
When I cut my water 50/50 with distilled I am at 50ppm HCO3 and I still see the sparge climb higher than I want it.
[quote=“zwiller”]To me it’s distilled only after Ken’s expose’ on the RO industry.
When I cut my water 50/50 with distilled I am at 50ppm HCO3 and I still see the sparge climb higher than I want it.[/quote]
That’s the way I approach it now too. Every time I went to that machine I wondered about that water. Then I thought, “Why am I wondering when I can know for sure?” Now I have 15-20 bottles of distilled water in my brew bunker at all times and I feel about 99% certain what ions are in the batch of beer I’m going to brew. I assume my local water has its mild fluctuations but it’s very consistent, generally. Cheers gang.
Someday I’m going to live in a place with hard water and I don’t know what I’m going to do. Two weeks ago I brewed a bohemiam pilsner using tap water, no salt additions and just a long acid rest to bring the pH in line (OK, and also 1% acid malt). My efficiency suffered a bit due to the low calcium levels, but I wanted to see if I could pull it off. I’ll report back in a month or so when I tap the keg.
I’m sure there is some (probably fluctuating) leval of bicarbonate, etc. in the RO water I am using, but my mash pH is always within .1 of what Martin’s speadsheet predicts, so I’m not too worried about it.
The sparge pH is also relatively easy to keep in line with a 1/4 teaspoon of phosphoric.
I suppose I could always switch to distilled if I started experiencing pH issues, but I think it is unlikely.
I’ve concluded that I’m not overly charged up about my meter. The last three brew sessions I used my colorpHasst strips and left the meter sitting in the storage solution in the basement… which (by the way) now has some sort of crusted stuff all over the glass. It resembles salt but I don’t know what it is. Yesterday I turned it on and placed it in the 7.0 solution and it read 7.3. I swirled it a little and it went to 7.0 momentarily and then back to 7.3. Oh well.
You’re not alone Ken. I got the pH 55 and it was nice for awhile when I was wrapping my head around water chemistry but it rarely gets used now. I’ve yet to have a beer where Bru’n Water didn’t get my within .1 pH. I now do all my water calculations in Bru’n Water and trust it’ll work out. Occasionally I will break out the meter but typically I’ll not even bother checking or will use a colorpHast strip.
[quote=“Ken Lenard”]which (by the way) now has some sort of crusted stuff all over the glass. It resembles salt but I don’t know what it is.[/quote]Did you leave it open to the air? If so, it’s probably salt(s) coming out of solution as the fluid evaporates. I stick my meter in a tall, small diameter shot glass with an oz of storage solution and then wrap a strip of Saran Wrap around it to seal it.
I bought one over a year ago and have yet to use it. Watching your struggles, I am not sure I ever will! :cheers:
[quote=“Ken Lenard”]Kidding, of course but honestly… these meters are not worth the trouble and effort. It requires all this additional attention and I don’t trust it at all. [/quote]I’m really confounded by all your troubles - my meter takes almost no effort to maintain and calibrate and it makes monitoring pH super-easy and accurate throughout the process. It’s like replacing the hydrometer with a refractometer.
Which meter do you have? Maybe I just picked the wrong one. 
[quote=“Ken Lenard”]Which meter do you have? Maybe I just picked the wrong one. [/quote]Think I’ve mentioned it once or twice on this thread already, but I have the Milwaukee pH56.
I also don’t understand all of the issues that he is having. Couldn’t be happier with my Hanna meter. No reason to knock all meters after just trying one.
I also don’t understand all of the issues that he is having. Couldn’t be happier with my Hanna meter. No reason to knock all meters after just trying one.[/quote]
Okay, sorry guys. My experience with this one meter (Milwaukee pH55) was not what I had hoped.
