Thanks a lot fellas
I think it’s a couple things:
- although you used 3 oz, your 20 min hop addition will still boil off a lot of those desired flavors. I would add a small charge (say .5oz) and use the other 2.5oz later, say .5oz at 10, .5oz at 8, .5oz at 5, .5 at 3, and .5oz at 1. That will provide you all the flavor and aroma you could want.
I’m still out on whirlpool hops. I find them very unstable, aging out VERY quickly and very susceptible to oxidation. Since you got most of your aroma there it doesn’t surprise me they aren’t as strong if there was ANY oxidation.
Lastly, 3 oz as dry hops (DH) is overkill IMHO. It was evidenced by your tightly compacted DH bag. You’re right that they didn’t contribute much, if any really, due to the lack of surface area. If you want to use that much I would consider DHing multiple times.
BTW, like the name! 
Try telling that to the guys over at the german brewing forum.
Cool everything that you guys are saying makes total sense and thanks a lot for the input! Haha yeah glad you like the name!
Ugh. Sorry to hear that.
Regaring late hops I agree with @loopie_beer. Move the 20 minute hops to later additions. The IPA I’m drinking right now got 2 oz FWH, 2oz cluster for bittering at 60, 1.5 oz cent at 10 & 5 mins , 1.5 oz whirlpooled for 20 minutes after chilling to 180, then 4 oz DH. This was for 10 gals split in two fermenters… The second batch of 5 gals got another 2 oz DH before kegging. The aroma is awesome.
I think Loop may be onto something regarding the stability of whirlpool hops. The first 5 gals seemed to lose the aroma after a few weeks in the keg. I do feel like I got more aroma from multiple DHs.
You would taste it if it was oxidized, you didn’t mention that. I still think your bag was to small. A 6oz dry hop will expand quite a bit
Yea but it’s 6 oz of hops. So how much got exposure? Don’t you think it got the exposure of at least 1.5oz? It would still have some decent nose.
It’s still young. Of course now that I’ve planted cardboard taste in his mind that’s what he’ll taste next bottle.
Oxidation can kill hop aroma and flavor with out giving a cardboard taste.
Haha nah I’ll stay open minded to the cardboard taste. So a young beer will not exhibit it’s full hop aroma potential? If so, then maybe that’s the case. And yes, I’m confident with the size of the ball of hops that at least 1.5 oz got exposed. Again, like others have said, I’m sure it’s a mixture of a few things whether it’s oxidation, hop schedule(most likely), whirlpooling, too small of a bag for DH’ing, or poor bottling. Its pretty clear lookin at what everyone has suggested, that one if not all of these factors had had part in this not so hoppy beer. I’ll give it more time and see if the beer gets better with time. Thanks again to everyone and any other suggestions are really appreciated.
I think this is a great topic to cover
So next time you have a bottle, open another and pour in a glass right along side the one you’ll quaff, but don’t drink the spare one and put yer nose into from time to time and see what, if any smells come from it as it warms… Cold will keep some aromas, weather hops or others, suppressed. Let yer nose help you smell the taste. Sneezles61
This is absolutely true, and likely a main contributor. Oxygen is the enemy of hoppy beers, and with too much oxygen exposure, hops are the first thing to go. With 3 oz flameout hops, there should be a pretty significant hop presence, even without a heavy dry hop. This is one of the huge benefits of kegging - the ability to keep O2 away from your beer. I don’t keg, and if I’m not REALLY REALLY careful to prevent as much oxygen exposure as possible, the hop aroma just dies at around the 3-week mark. Rather than cardboard, it starts developing kind of a raisiny taste. That’s a sure sign of oxidation if you start to notice it developing.
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Yeah that’s exactly what has happened to me with previous beers and after talking with everyone, I’m convinced that was the issue…,… Suppose I should invest in kegs and stop whirlpooling
Whirlpooling is not a problem if done correctly. I try to keep it gentle and without causing any surface disturbance, splashing or foaming but having said that I’m not convinced hot side aeration is a real issue.
IMHO your issue was in your racking cane/bottling wand setup. You introduced air during bottling then packaged it up. I’ve had a few instances where I turned away from my racking to a keg at the wrong moment and let the auto siphon run dry introducing bubbles to the beer. I closed up the keg and immediately put it on gas. Usually the affects are minimal but I can almost always tell when it’s happened. Kegging would help, especially if you’re looking for a justification to SWMBO for the expenditure, but you need to address your racking process/equipment as well.
Awesome, dude thanks a lot.
Nice fish BTW. Is that a freshwater catfish or a grouper?
Thanks! Fresh water cat. I caught it while bass fishing with a crank bait. I just got lucky I guess. Never had a cat go after a crank bait like that. It was a big fish and it was pregnant so I took some picks and let it go
Momma musta been really hungry to rise up for a crank bait.
From what I remember of the Brewing Network podcast where Dr. Bamforth discussed this topic, it’s not a myth, but yeast clean up any issues. He advised taking reasonable measures to avoid HSA, but don’t worry about it.
And then aerate the crap out of it prior to pitching. This is what I’ve always found ironic.
The guys over at German Brewing are fastidious about avoiding any aeration after wort creation. They don’t aerate until they’ve pitched. Still even with a massive healthy yeast pitch you can’t fully guarantee a fast start to fermention and full oxygen scrubbing. The “super tasters” claim they can tell though.
