About using goodbelly for kettle souring?

[brew_cat]

It was a 3 gallon batch. I don't think it would be to much. I'm not sure it works like that. You have to ask @porkchop about the science. I boiled mine but I think 180 is the minimum for pasteurization according to @dmtaylo2

[dkilday2]

Ok cool thanks for the feedback! i will probably try 2 of the goodbelly shots then. So you didn't have any off flavors from a quick boil?

[dmtaylo2]

I don't think I ever said anything on this topic, but it sure sounds good anyway! For whatever it's worth, I always pasteurize my raw apple juice at 160 F for 15 minutes for making cider. Maybe that's what you're thinking of. Pasteurization can be done as low as like 140 F if memory serves, but the cooler it is, the longer you need to hold it -- probably like 45 minutes or something like that at 140 F. Somebody else in this world knows a lot more about this than I do.

[porkchop]

Lacto geek, reporting for duty! Ok, I'm going to keep this brief, because I've been sampling tonight. But lacto dies around 130°F. So does yeast. So like @loopie_beer said, pasteurize at 160-170°F. It's MUCH higher than the temps at which any microbes can survive. So you're safe. As long as you have a pH drop within 4 days. Or start making alcohol. With goodbelly, it won't be an issue.

If you boil pils for anything less than 30 minutes, you risk DMS and a beer that tastes like creamed corn. Keep it under the temp to convert SMM to DMS, and it's not a problem. Go over that temp, and you had better boil for an hour.

And oh, 1 carton of goodbelly is enough for 10 gallons. Should be done in 18-24 hours. But no harm done by pitching extra. Lacto is self limiting. So go with 1/4 carton for 2 gallons. Or heck, pitch the whole thing. No harm done. Mango flavor is pretty flavor neutral. It'll be great.

[dkilday2]

Thanks for the reply @porkchop ! So what I will plan on doing is mashing like normal increasing temp to around 160 or so then chilling to pitch a Fourth or half carton of goodbelly which is roughly 4 to 8 oz? I will let it sour for 24 hours and reheat it to kill lacto before again chilling and pitching yeast of choice. I think I will go with sacc trois.

[porkchop]

Sounds perfect! 644 is a good choice. Any yeast will work, but 644 or a kolsch yeast really adds some character.

[deadwolfbones]

To back up what @porkchop said, I accidentally pitched a full carton into a 5 gal batch and the results were great. Probably more than I needed, but ultimately a very tasty beer!

[dkilday2]

Sounds good thanks for the replies! Just to be clear is the carton a 16 0z or 32 oz ? Also has anyone used the omega tropical IPA it seems like it is the same strain as 644 and looks like it will not require a starter based on the cell count. I will be fermenting at ambient temps on my basement around 66 degrees do you think with the increase in temp from fermentation that will be fine with this particular strain?

[loopie_beer]

The Omega Tropical IPA is similar to wlp644. 66° is pretty restrained for this strain. You could wrap your fermenter in a towel to help raise the temps.

Due to the low pH level you need more active healthy yeast. I re-read that you're only making 2gals so one package should be sufficient.

[dkilday2]

Ok that sounds like a good plan. I guess I could still make a starter but I was afraid that would technically be overpitching if I used the whole packet for 2 gallons. I wasn't really sure how to go about cutting it down for a smaller batch. I've also read that the fermwrap increases temperatures by around 10 degrees so would there be harm in using this without a controller and leaving it on? I have several of the thermometers that you stick on the sides of the bucket.

[deadwolfbones]

A Goodbelly carton is 32oz.

[mlclapp]

I see the no hops instructions ... If you are killing the lacto can you dryhop?

[voltron]

Yes. I've had some very tasty dry hopped kettle sours.

Edit: After you've killed the lacto, that is.

[porkchop]

Yep, works great. You can dry-hop regardless of whether you kill the lacto or not, as typically you sour the wort before fermentation and dry hop after fermentation. Hops inhibit the lactobacillus, so as long as souring is complete you can introduce any hops that you want. Just avoid high bitterness in a sour beer, as bitter and sour are usually not so awesome together.

[dkilday2]

So I am finally getting around to making this now that it is starting to warm up. Does anyone know around about how much lactic acid to use in a 2 gallon batch? In using dry extract and distilled water if that helps.
Thanks again

[dkilday2]

So I made this last night and wen to check it by taste this evening and their is a slight tartness but not much at all and I was wondering if this is normal or should I let it go longer? Was gonna wait and recheck it in the morning. I've probably used 3/4 of a container of goodbelly at this point so hoping that didn't mess it up. @porkchop seems to be the expert ha.

[porkchop]

Sorry, I missed your post the other day! I'd go to with 2ml lactic acid as a rough estimate to drop the pH before pitching, but it's completely optional.

Once the lacto drops the pH of the wort, it's not going to taste sour. Coke has a ridiculously low pH, but it's not sour because of all the sugar in it. Same thing with your wort at this point. It's acidic, but full of sugar. Think of it as a lemonade. Slightly tart is just right, by the time the yeast eat the sugar it'll be nice and sour. If you let it go too long, goodbelly can make it unpalatably sour, so you're probably just fine.

[dkilday2]

@porkchop thanks for the quick reply. I went ahead pitched my yeast. I didn't pre acidify I just opted for the 5 minute boil last night. I ended up adding three fourths a carton because I had added a little more before reading your comment so hopefully that want be too much since we should be fermenting soon. I plan on adding fruit and don't have a secondary vessel do you have any experience with fruit in the primary after fermentation?

[porkchop]

Sure, go ahead and add whatever fruit you want. Primary or secondary, both work just fine. Chopped, purée, juice, whatever you have. I'm a big fan of stone fruit and citrus in a basic lacto sour. Or add some cucumber and mint, or whatever strikes you with your favorite mixed drink. All kinds of options!

[dkilday2]

My primary fermentation has been going since Thursday and is starting to slow. I was going to try and bottle in about a week so my question is can I add the raspberries as fermentation slows or will this increase the abv quite a bit ? Is there an advantage over the Oregon fruit purée vs frozen thawed fruit ? @porkchop