Hello I have a ? about using this for kettle souring.How does one use this, what temp does one pitch, an what temp does one hold it after the pitch, what flavor of the goodbelly does one use, how much do you pitch, is a starter needed ???
Mango 1 liter (Maybe qt can’t remember) bottle treats 10 gal. Pitch at 100 I didn’t bother holding at any temp. No starter needed.
Here’s a post from pork chop about making a goes that has a lot of good info
So with the MAJOR caveat that I have not had this beer, here’s what I would do to get a decent gose base that you can adjust with the proper fruit additions to get you close. I’m not going to call it a clone, by any means, but it’ll get you a solid gose that you can tweak to get it the way you want.
You’ll need to decide if you’re going to keep the lacto alive in your beer, or if you’re going to kill it off prior to pitching yeast. Killing the lacto eliminates the risk of contaminating your equipment (treat it like any other clean ale), but live lacto will make for a better product in the long run as it will change in the bottle. If you keep the lacto alive, just get a spare plastic carboy that you can use just for sours, an extra auto-siphon, and bottling bucket/spigot/bottling wand. Or just practice really good sanitation and trust that Star-San will kill wild yeast and bacteria (which is what it is supposed to do).
Step 1 - get yourself a quart container of mango Goodbelly probiotic juice. Lots of grocery stores have it, or it’ll almost certainly be at a natural food store. This will contain the lactobacillus for souring the wort.
All grain, mash at 148F and sparge to get 5.5 gallons 1.045 wort. Traditional grist is a mix of pils and wheat, I like a 60-40 split, so about 5# pils and 3.5# white wheat malt.
Extract, use 5# DME for 5 gallons wort. I would probably do 3# pilsner or extra light, and 2# wheat DME.
Collect your wort in the kettle, and either do a short boil (5 minutes) or pasteurize at 170F for about 10 minutes. NO HOPS!
Chill wort to 90F. If you have food-grade lactic acid, adjust kettle pH to 4.4-4.7. This is to keep spoilage bacteria at bay while it sours, as added insurance if your sanitation isn’t perfect, and to improve the foam on the final product. If you don’t have a pH meter, add around 5ml 88% lactic acid, maybe 10ml if your water is pretty hard. If you don’t have lactic acid on hand, go for the 5 minute boil instead prior to chilling and don’t worry about it.
If you want to kill the lacto, once the wort is at 90F, shake up your carton of Goodbelly and dump about half into the wort in the kettle. Seal it up as best you can, and put it aside for 18-24 hours. Don’t worry about purging the headspace with CO2, it won’t do any good. Let it cool to room temperature.
If you’re going to keep the lacto alive, transfer it to your carboy once it’s at 90F and add your Goodbelly. Airlock it and set it aside to cool to room temperature.
After 18 to 24 hours at room temperature, taste the soured wort. There should be no krausen, but the wort should be nice and cloudy. It should be sweet but with some tartness, like a lemonade. If you have a pH meter, take a measurement and see if the pH is 3.2-3.5. It should be.
If you left the wort in the kettle, go ahead and finish your boil, go for the full 60 minutes so you don’t have any DMS. Chill to ale pitching temperatures, and pitch 2 packets of US-05. You’ll need the extra cell count due to the low pH.
If you are not killing the lacto, just add your 2 packets US-05 to the carboy. Don’t worry too much about headspace, as you won’t get nearly as thick of a krausen with the low pH, but a blow-off tube is never a bad idea.
Fermentation is usually done within 10-14 days. Bottle or keg, it’s nice at higher carb levels like 2.7-3.0 volumes.
For a traditional gose, I like 15g sea salt per 5 gallons. This gives you a subtle hint of salt, and you can always add more later. 15g coriander is traditional at flameout. Skip the coriander if you’re going to use the grapefruit and cactus fruit like in this beer.
To get close to this one, I’d start with 15g salt and the zest of 1 grapefruit at flameout. Maybe even the juice, but don’t get any of the bitter pith in your beer. For the cactus fruit? No idea - you’re on your own for that one!
This^^^^^^^^^^. I just tried my first bottle of this gose the other day and it is excellent. Easiest beer I’ve ever made.
Cheers to @porkchop for the guidance. My first kettle soured gose is done and it’s a beaut:
(Keeping the software from making my font size huge) #DGM! Sorry, had to be that guy.
Just tried my sour porter, excellent. I to learned the good belly kettle sour method from @porkchop. I think I will try the above recipe in the near future
I was thinking of trying this method however would be planning on killing the lacto before transferring to my fermenter. My question is how much of the goodbelly should be used in a smaller biab batch of around 2 gallons?
Also if I am going to do a short 15 minute boil what kind of risk is there for dms formation with the pilsner malt? This is only my second all grain batch and first time using pilsner so was a little concerned about that. Thanks again you guys are always super helpful.
My understanding is that you need to keep the wort below 175° to prevent SMM from decomposing to DMS. If you boil only 15 mins you’ll have problems.
You can use only half the carton but it won’t hurt to use all.
I used the the shots and used two
Ok cool. So you don’t think half carton or 8 0z of the good belly would be too much ? I guess the concern was it might sour quite a bit faster if I used too much.
Would 170 degrees or so be high enough to kill the lacto and other unwanted organisms ? What size batch did you make with the 2 shots Brew cat?
It was a 3 gallon batch. I don’t think it would be to much. I’m not sure it works like that. You have to ask @porkchop about the science. I boiled mine but I think 180 is the minimum for pasteurization according to @dmtaylo2
Ok cool thanks for the feedback! i will probably try 2 of the goodbelly shots then. So you didn’t have any off flavors from a quick boil?
I don’t think I ever said anything on this topic, but it sure sounds good anyway! For whatever it’s worth, I always pasteurize my raw apple juice at 160 F for 15 minutes for making cider. Maybe that’s what you’re thinking of. Pasteurization can be done as low as like 140 F if memory serves, but the cooler it is, the longer you need to hold it – probably like 45 minutes or something like that at 140 F. Somebody else in this world knows a lot more about this than I do.
Lacto geek, reporting for duty! Ok, I’m going to keep this brief, because I’ve been sampling tonight. But lacto dies around 130°F. So does yeast. So like @loopie_beer said, pasteurize at 160-170°F. It’s MUCH higher than the temps at which any microbes can survive. So you’re safe. As long as you have a pH drop within 4 days. Or start making alcohol. With goodbelly, it won’t be an issue.
If you boil pils for anything less than 30 minutes, you risk DMS and a beer that tastes like creamed corn. Keep it under the temp to convert SMM to DMS, and it’s not a problem. Go over that temp, and you had better boil for an hour.
And oh, 1 carton of goodbelly is enough for 10 gallons. Should be done in 18-24 hours. But no harm done by pitching extra. Lacto is self limiting. So go with 1/4 carton for 2 gallons. Or heck, pitch the whole thing. No harm done. Mango flavor is pretty flavor neutral. It’ll be great.
Thanks for the reply @porkchop ! So what I will plan on doing is mashing like normal increasing temp to around 160 or so then chilling to pitch a Fourth or half carton of goodbelly which is roughly 4 to 8 oz? I will let it sour for 24 hours and reheat it to kill lacto before again chilling and pitching yeast of choice. I think I will go with sacc trois.
Sounds perfect! 644 is a good choice. Any yeast will work, but 644 or a kolsch yeast really adds some character.
To back up what @porkchop said, I accidentally pitched a full carton into a 5 gal batch and the results were great. Probably more than I needed, but ultimately a very tasty beer!
Sounds good thanks for the replies! Just to be clear is the carton a 16 0z or 32 oz ? Also has anyone used the omega tropical IPA it seems like it is the same strain as 644 and looks like it will not require a starter based on the cell count. I will be fermenting at ambient temps on my basement around 66 degrees do you think with the increase in temp from fermentation that will be fine with this particular strain?
The Omega Tropical IPA is similar to wlp644. 66° is pretty restrained for this strain. You could wrap your fermenter in a towel to help raise the temps.
Due to the low pH level you need more active healthy yeast. I re-read that you’re only making 2gals so one package should be sufficient.